Robert Allens $6000 Mentoring Course - Posted by Nick

Re: Question for HouseRookie … - Posted by Robert M. Campbell

Posted by Robert M. Campbell on August 22, 2003 at 17:52:00:

Austin,

>>>>>There is also a system that predicts most Americans to be dead broke at retirment. Another system says that 7 out of 10 biz owners will fail during the first few years.

I ask: “What systems are you referring to?”

>>>>>Personally, such systems can limit the human potential and compound the human fear factors.

I ask: “How does following a objective system that gives you an advantage for correctly predicting future outcomes limit human potential?”

>>>>>The systems that you speak of assume that past behaviors will repeat. It also groups human beings into social norms/groups similar to a commodity.

I say: “Yes, the human beast is extremely predicable, especially when placed in a group setting where the herd mentality operates.”

>>>>>I’m sorry but we are not beef, corn, pork, or
cattle. People have multi-levels of skills, talents, and ambitions.

I say: “I agree, there are indeed exceptions to the general rule.”

>>>>>Human potentials can’t be measured that way because people change but systems don’t.

I say: "All of us have tremendous human potential, if we can objectively adjust to change. Systems are a tool for measuring change (and thus risk) so we can better and more successfully adapt to the world around us.

>>>>>Likewise, credit systems don’t change but people do.
Such systems analyze the past for commercial profit. You can have perfect credit today and still can’t open up a bank account due to past history. You can have perfect credit today with old ones remain for 4-10 years. Financial systems penalize people for their past. IT IS ALWAYS BASED ON THE PAST.

I say: “The fastest horse may not always win the race, but it’s the way to bet.”

>>>>>A human being on the other hand has the ability and potential to do good today for a better tomorrow. What you do today can pay off tomorrow,
whereas systems you speak of penalize you into the future.

I say: “How does a system that is highly correlated with the likeihood of a future event occuring ever penalize you.? This is an advangage, not a disadvantage.”

>>>>>The systems you speak of was designed to profit from past human errors. The system that each of us can come up with has the potential to reward based on internally driven scoring.

I say: “Human errors? Hardly. Credit scoring, insurance premiums, weather forecasting, etc. are based on proven correlations that are more likely than not to predict a future event. We’re always working with probabilities, never absolute certainities in business and the markets.”

>>>>>I prefer a scoring system where each person gives himself in contrast to one given by someone else…ex…credit score.

I say: “I encourage people to do well too. I simply advise them to play it smart by objectively playing the odds (just like betting in poker). Make decisions from your head, not your heart.”

>>>>>Systems are built with an objective. Your real estate system may be different from mine because you and I have different potentials and certainly different objectives.

I say: “Systems are designed to maximize the human potential. They help to take emotion and statistical uncertainty about of objective decision-making.”

I look forward to your rebuttals.

Robert Campbell

systems… - Posted by tang-0-rang

Posted by tang-0-rang on August 23, 2003 at 22:07:19:

Robert, I just wanted to add something.
It seems to me that sytems are not favored by most due to the “ACCOUNTABILIY” factor they impose. Most people don’t like to admit or be blamed for fault.
Maybe its not ONLY the system it-self that should be reformed as people often state… Maybe its one’s personal view or objectives that need to be reformed… When some see sytems, they see limits and bounderies, while others just see bench marks.
If you understood any of this rambling…
thanks for your time.
Todd Williamson…(CO)

A System to outpace the current system? - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 22, 2003 at 23:03:59:

nt

Houserookie has no answer for you - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 22, 2003 at 22:56:35:

Robert,

You call it rebuttals, some call it philosophies.
Is this simply for the sake of good talks? :slight_smile:

Robert, even the best system follows a norm and
ignores innovations and exceptions. One would have to ask himself if one desires to be average or above average.

A good system can beat the average performer but what if I wanted to reach the top of the ladder? Is there a system for that?

A win win bet might pay 2:1 but what if I wanted a 20:1?

That reminds me, “timing the real estate market” is a system too, no? Certainly there are exceptions and rebuttals to your system that can vary by region.

Similarly, a credit system evaluates future probs of default. But I also know people that can beat the current credit scoring systems. Speaking of which, do we have a credit scoring system? Last I heard there are three FICO, BEACON, and another from Trans Union. Surely there are other systems that can project better or worse than ones currently in use today by the current “system.”

As the heading of this post suggests I dont have an
answer or system for others.

I propose a system that beats the current system for innovators. Does that make any sense?

I personally don’t subscribe to a system because I’m not after average performance. Average performance is fine for those starting out at below average. Perhaps we all subscribe to some “system” initially then evolve into new systems. Hopefully for the better and greater good.

Robert, I wonder if it’s politically correct to theorize that a system isn’t the convention of capitalism? It is in the individual’s best interest to do better by beating the current system.

I look forward to your rebuttals on exceptions and
innovations and how they can be discussed in the same context of a system.

Cheerz,

Re: Question for House R -and Other Philosophers - Posted by Linda Simms

Posted by Linda Simms on August 22, 2003 at 18:17:19:

If you laid all the Philosophers, just like all the Economists end to end, they would reach from here to the moon and probably be very uncomfortable. Why waste your time, other for than the sake of conversation, in speculating what may happen and predicting. Deal with the here and now and use that knowledge to guide you in the future. That approach is much more practicle and much, much more effective and relavent to what counts in today’s society and what is important for people to understand in this work a day world.

I think you danced around the question… - Posted by Marcos

Posted by Marcos on August 24, 2003 at 20:53:43:

Credit Scores are not a system in the vein that Robert Campbell was talking of. All of your examples were about statistics. While a system is a totally different thing.

I guess I have the biggest problem with this statement: “I personally don’t subscribe to a system because I’m not after average performance.”

Systems aren’t about average performance, systems are about perfecting performance. That’s the difference. Look at McDonald’s, mediocre hamburger, great system. Now, they are the biggest real estate investors on the planet. Meanwhile your mom and pop store with the much better hamburger isn’t taking over the world, because they don’t have a good system.

Look at Blockbuster. They came in, charged more money than the mom and pop stores and revolutionized an industry. Once again, great system.

Dominoes created a great system to deliver hot fresh pizzas in 30 minutes or less. Revolutionized the industry. Once again, great system.

Having a system for the purpose of real estate investing, is about creating a method that brings in properties consistently month after month. If you have a good system, and you work on it month after month, you have no choice but to get better and better every single month.

I know many investors who buy 3-10 properties a year. And they do very well. No system. I also know investors who buy 3-10 properties a month. I don’t know any of them who do this without a very well defined system. I agree with you that strategies may change at any time. However, there is always a system that is followed.

So my contention is that systems do not bring about average performance. I find that quite the contrary, systems usually are able to bring about extraordinary performance.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Marcos

System? - Posted by Wayne-NC

Posted by Wayne-NC on August 23, 2003 at 21:23:03:

Robert will see this as well. I think what you are all talking about are Statistics. That is the best way to predict the future, however, it is not perfect. People are clumped into averages. Some do better and some do worse. The statistics will determine what the system will do. Does any of this make sense?

Re: Houserookie has no answer for you - Posted by DMJ

Posted by DMJ on August 23, 2003 at 16:56:16:

houserookie, thanks for the tip on the necessity of creating a business system. Too often we discuss money ideas, tools, resources, techniques, yet we
ignore a system to meet the objective.

No answers from HouseRookie, then … - Posted by Robert Campbell

Posted by Robert Campbell on August 23, 2003 at 01:20:53:

no more questions from Robert Campbell.

That’s that. ;0)

Robert Campbell

Linda, Linda, Linda. - Posted by Wayne-NC

Posted by Wayne-NC on August 23, 2003 at 21:53:24:

“Why waste your time, other for than the sake of conversation, in speculating what may happen and predicting. Deal with the here and now and use that knowledge to guide you in the future.” Your quote. Doesn’t the here and now eventually become the past? You say not to waste time and not use that to guide the future? I do not understand. The past create statistics in which to predict the future. Granted, it is not perfect but it can help in decision making. Why not learn from those that have been there before that created those statistics from which we can learn or discard if we so choose? Other peoples mistakes saved me 20 years of problems because I learned from their past. If I start from scratch as you suggest I am bound to repeat past problems that others may have had. History is created in a second. Think about that.

Re: Question for House R -and Other Philosophers - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 22, 2003 at 22:05:00:

Linda,

Interesting how you brought up philosophers, day to day world, and future success all in the same topic. That’s a concept that only true philosophers can come up with. No?

What difference would it make if you were to lay
philosophers side by side or carpenters side by side?

Re: Question for House R -and Other Philosophers - Posted by Robert Campbell

Posted by Robert Campbell on August 22, 2003 at 18:25:20:

Linda,

Your point is unclear. Please restate it.

Thank you.

Robert Campbell

Perhaps we’re answering two different quesions… - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 25, 2003 at 24:23:58:

The issue here is not a question about systems. It is about which system is right for YOU.

There are three major credit bureaus each using different scoring models. There is no credit scoring system since all three don’t use the same.

I am glad you brought up McDonalds, Dominoes and Blockbuster. Let’s give credit where credit is due.
However,neither you or I, or the moms and pops of the world can be guaranteed success if we put McDonald’s system into use, even today. Not every McDonald’s franchise makes money. Some actually go bankrupt.

Alas, where and how is the average person going to get $1 million to buy a McDs franchise?

Everyone knows that the three franchises are successful, BUT THIS IS AFTER THE FACT.

In the beginning, their success was questionable.

If you have $50,000 then $6000 isn’t too bad to invest in someone else’s system. Without the $6000, I would stick with a few $250 systems.

That said, the original topic is about whether one should invest in a $6000 system. To that I neglected to ask whether the original poster has $6000 to spare.

This is really a discussion about risk levels. How much risk is one willing to take?

Is it better to invest in one $6000 system or several $250 systems?

I prefer to take several systems and customize for me.

Re: System? - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 24, 2003 at 01:34:53:

Where did you get the idea that a system of doing business is a statistic?

Re: System? - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 24, 2003 at 01:17:17:

Where did you get the idea that a system of doing business is a statistic?

Re: No answers from HouseRookie, then … - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 23, 2003 at 19:31:29:

Robert,

I am a student of business systems, my systems, not someone else’s proven systems. I have no idea where or how, and what background someone else brings to the table, but I know my strengths and weaknesses.

I also have different objectives.

Re: No answers from HouseRookie, then … - Posted by Brad

Posted by Brad on August 23, 2003 at 13:20:52:

This is great! I have been rivetted (spelling?)to my chair in front of my computer just reading back and forth stimulating bantor about systems and capitalism etc… Now it is almost noon, I have not taken a shower, eaten breakfast, gotten any work done, stepped outside to enjoy the beautiful day, and have basically isolated myself from the outside world for the moment.

Thanks guys!! I think I need system so I can start my day more productively from now on.

Anyway, I did find it interesting to read those previous posts but I have a kinda blended outlook on the issue of systems. I believe that a system, any system, is beneficial in organizing thoughts, ideas, actions, etc, into a coherent form, in order to move beyond the system to create something more unique to the user of the system.

In other words, in my opinion, everyone should adopt a system, idea etc, to their own personal ideals, viewpoints or personalities, and then I think it would be more useful and meaningful to them. Spiritual and creative practices are often built around “systems” or “rituals” in order to have an individual experience. “The observer is not independent of the observed.” Everyone will adopt their own style to their pursuits. A system helps to point people in an organized direction.

In order to read and write creatively and uniquely, we all needed to learn the alphabet, then and only then were we able to combine the letters, words and sentences to form coherent, individual, and creative ideas and thoughts. Isn’t grammar, syntax, and english based on a system.

Ok, this lack of food and blood sugar is getting to my brain…one last thought.

To me, if I take one course and learn one idea that may help save me or make me more money, than usually it will be well worth it. In our business, that one idea usually will pay much more than the cost of most courses.

And if none of this makes any sense … just disregard all of it. :slight_smile: time for breakfast…

Re: Question for House R -and Other Philosophers - Posted by Linda Simms

Posted by Linda Simms on August 22, 2003 at 18:46:46:

Robert. Most of your posts are unclear to the average person who reads and posts on this site, that is the point. You speculate and discuss subjects and points that are either beyond the average investor or wantabe or are off the subject like delving into the stock market. I say this not to be derogatory, but I believe you, with the large amount of intellegence you have shown could be a great help to the average investor, but to do so I believe you have to speak to people on their knowledge level to assist them. Don’t you agree?

Re: System? - Posted by Wayne-NC

Posted by Wayne-NC on August 24, 2003 at 06:45:30:

From your previous post. "A good system can beat the average performer but what if I wanted to reach the top of the ladder? Is there a system for that?

A win win bet might pay 2:1 but what if I wanted a 20:1?

That reminds me, “timing the real estate market” is a system too, no? Certainly there are exceptions and rebuttals to your system that can vary by region.

Similarly, a credit system evaluates future probs of default. But I also know people that can beat the current credit scoring systems. Speaking of which, do we have a credit scoring system? Last I heard there are three FICO, BEACON, and another from Trans Union. Surely there are other systems that can project better or worse than ones currently in use today by the current “system.”" You use words like “average”, “2:1 odds”,“credit scoring” which compiles stats of many previous borrowers kind of tell me that. I read the book by Robert and he compiled alot of data or statistics for his system to form conclusions. Again, not perfect but it helps with decision making. I am sure you agree 100%. We all learn from this.

Re: No answers from HouseRookie, then … - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 23, 2003 at 19:25:08:

That’s correct. People that don’t have a system of doing business are throwing away valuable time and resources.

Make sure it’s a system that maximizes your potential and skills. Stay away from other people’s proven system because it might not be in your best interest or impartial to your skills and experiences.

I am not at all in disagreement with Robert in regards to systems, my emphasis is in the implementation of a system that is best for the individual.

Robert had brought up a good point about credit scoring systems that banks use. But even those “systems” vary from bank to bank, distinquished by the objectives. Some banks will lend to people with bad credit others prefer perfect credit.

There’s a good book called “E-Myth” that analyzes the causes of business failures. By not having a system, business owners can become frustrated with the ups and downs of business growth.