RW and the BBB - Posted by Ron (MD)

Posted by Al Genard on March 24, 2001 at 21:51:45:


I have sent a detailed e-mail stating the facts and nature of my issues with Russ Whitneys’ internet training.

I notice that Russ mentions big businesses such as J.C. Penney, Sears, Auto Zone and Macys in a reply to my original post.

Although I have never shopped at Macys, I have been a long time, satisfied customer of the other 3 companies.

I can’t verify wheather or not they discuss complaints in forums such as this one, because I have never had an issue with any of these companies, therefore I do not even know if forums exist for them.

These successful companies have always done what was neccesary to take good care of me. Their service includes full, no questions asked refunds, regardless of the length of time I had their product before returning it, the condition, (unused or used), regardless of wheather I even had a receipt!

It is obvious why I continue to give them my constant repeat business, as I would have given the Whitney organization had I received even a fraction of the type of service I receive from any one of these large companies, companies who could certainly survive without my money in their cash registers.

The most intersting company named by Mr. Whitney, for me personally is Sears. I am a department manager for my local Sears Hardware store. I work there because I enjoy it, not because I need the job, (my real estate holdings are taking pretty good care of me).

Sears employees, are strongly instructed to do “WHATEVER IT TAKES” to make the customer happy and keep them coming back. You would not beleive some of the things I have personally seen done to keep some of the most obnoxious customers returning to Sears.

As I have stated before, I am only hoping to be treated fairly and with the same respect as I receive from any other company who deserves my loyalty.


Al Genard

RW and the BBB - Posted by Ron (MD)

Posted by Ron (MD) on March 14, 2001 at 20:20:04:

Someone posted this link on the main newsgroup:

I don’t think it will be a surprise to most of the folks here. It does help me understand why I always felt the need to wash my hands after reading a handful of rw’s posts here.

Ron Guy

Re: RW and the BBB - Posted by Stu Silver, Trainer

Posted by Stu Silver, Trainer on March 14, 2001 at 23:15:59:

Ron Guy,

I read the link, and I would like to see some specific background information.

I will repeat what I said to another negative email, among the many positive ones - if you have a specific gripe, I will try to help you.

All of the Whitney seminars have a full money-back guarantee after the first day, and the few rare times a refund has been requested, it was because the student couldn’t afford it.

Stu Silver, CCIM
Lead Trainer at Russ Whitney’s Millionaire U

Re: RW and the BBB - Posted by Ron (MD)

Posted by Ron (MD) on March 15, 2001 at 07:05:15:


Fortunately, I haven’t dealt with your organization, so I have no personal complaint. I posted the link to give others here additional insight into your operation.

Frank Chin’s post (immediately below this one) provided you (again) with two specific complaints. A third was posted below by Steve Cook, related to your UGetPaid seminar.

Now, Stu, it says a lot to me (and others, I think) that you and rw have been made aware of these three seemingly legitimate complaints and nothing has happened except promises. It doesn’t surprise me that a company in your business would routinely get requests for refunds and routinely dodge them, despite rw’s claims of a money-back-guarantee. (Stu, give us some credit…your guarantee is, apparently, that if a customer is unhappy after one day of a three day seminar, he can go home and collect a refund. Human nature is such that your enthusiastic customers are unlikely to throw in the towel that early in the process. If you really stood behind your product, you would, at a minimum, offer the refund at the end of the seminar. Satisfied customers are very unlikely to claim a refund after being delivered the equivalent of a Harvard education (in rw’s estimation) for a few thousand dollars.)

What I don’t understand is why a company (legitimate or otherwise) wouldn’t have immediately taken care of these few problems for the hundreds of potential customers here to see. You have an opportunity here to at least give the appearance of standing behind your program with these three customers, despite the fact that you have ignored them in the past. To ignore them here (under all this light) adds further credence to your record with the Better Business Bureaus in Florida and California.

Ron Guy

TWO Specific Gripes on this Board - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on March 15, 2001 at 06:29:50:


First, let me commend you on some excellent posts you done here.

Unfortunately, we are all aware of some negatives as evidenced by the BBB report as well as other posts on this board.

There are currently two ongoing complaints with the names “AL Genard” and “Lyn Moates” on this board if you’re talking about specific gripes. They sound awfully like what’s reported in the BBB report.

Nothing would redeem your orgainization better than for all of us to hear from these people that their complaints were resolved.


Re: RW and the BBB - Posted by Al Genard

Posted by Al Genard on March 14, 2001 at 23:28:46:

Mr. Whitney,

I am so glad to see that you are now active in this forum.

My son and I attended one of your internet seminars in St. Louis in May of 2K1.

Although we had high expectations, we only really expected the promises made at the free seminar to be fulfilled at the seminar which we paid for.

Many, many issues need to be addressed here, but I will be brief at this time until I here back from you here or at my e-mail.

I have posted a number of times on this forum and have had a flood of people contact me with similar complaints, almost to the letter of my own.

A rep from your company responded here once, and asked for all the details of my complaints. He indicated that he was sincerely interested in the issues and stated that the people at WIS took “great pride in customer service”.

I replied as he asked in, great detail. I never heard back from him here at this forum. When I tried to e-mail him direct, my mail bounced back undeliverable.

I did, however, receive an e-mail from someone who claimed to be a paersonal friend of yours.

In several mails back and forth, your friend said that he could not beleive that you would personally condone the poor treatment that many of us out here have testified to.

I told your friend that possibly you were unaware of the course your business has taken, if in fact you are not personally as active as you may have once been, due to the wide range of fields you are promoting. (I understand about delegating authority and trusting employees with responsibility).

My son and I were prepared to attend your real estate seminar in St.Louis, held in August or September of 2K1.

After the poor results from the internet seminar, we could not justify giving any more money to an organization that had failed us miserably once before.

I saw you at a 6 day seminar put on by Global Resouce Network in Las Vegas, June of '99. I was impressed enough to try your internet seminar.

The combination of unfulfilled promises and overpriced software that was packed with useless items such as Lotus, a world atlas, an encyclopedia,a pack of games, and a photo editor, (which is no better than what is already standard with most new computers), really soured us.

I am not here to antagonize you or seek my “pound of flesh”, I only would like to be treated fairly and with the respect due someone who trusted in your good name. It was the name “RUSS WHITNEY” that convinced me to seek your wisdom and pay for it.

I will say that the information i received from your appearance at the GRN seminar, in conjunction with your television informercials, have launched me on a real estate buying route that has proven quite successful. That does not fairly justify the investment in your internet training that has thus far not been at all rewarding aside from the fact that I now own a computer and know my way around the net. (Lots of folks can do that without spending 3K).

I sincerely hope that you will take complaints seriously. The types of responses from a few of your so called “fans” are very offensive.

They tell me I must be some kind of loser, falling into the “95% catagory of perpetual toilers”. The other types of mindless comments range from, “I must have too much time on my hands”, or they say they are too busy making money to take “whiners” like me seriously. (Odd that they find the time to e-mail me persoanlly and hurl mindless comments to someone they know absolutly nothing about aside from the fact that I had chosen to express my problem in a forum designed for that express purpose among others.

I am an intelligent individual, like yourself, who is seeking nothing more than satisfaction and fair treatment, as would you or anyone else who had been misled.

I hope to hear here from you soon and invite you to respond directly to my e-mail address if you wish.


Al Genard

Re: RW and the BBB - Posted by Russ Whitney

Posted by Russ Whitney on March 21, 2001 at 11:54:16:


I appreciate your comments. We do not answer customer service complaints on bulletin boards. They are handled in a systematic and professional fashion, as any company would.

The response requested that you contact customer service directly. Perhaps you entered the wrong email address, as our company has had the same email addresses since the inception of email here.

Our phone numbers and address have been the same for over 12 years.

Sorry you had a problem. If you look below, in another post we have instructed the supervisor of our customer service department to personally oversee, looking into your query.

Please follow the directions and let’s see what we can do.


Russ Whitney


Posted by Al Genard on March 15, 2001 at 23:28:39:

I am curious as to how I was listed as posting under the subject heading…“RW and the BBB”. I don’t think I was even on line at the time it was posted, apparantly by Stu Silver???Who’s he and why did he repost my message here?

As to Stu Silvers’ comment that Russ Whitney seminars offer a full money back guarantee after the first day, I would like to say that the reason few ask for a refund after the first day is due to the fact that these seminars run three days or more. Most people are not aware after the initial day of training, (which is more like a group encouter, i.e. discussing goals, getting to know each other and the trainer etc.), that the seminar will not be the quality we were paying for. It takes the full seminar to find out that many promises were not fulfilled.

In my case, I was mainly dissatisfied shortly after the seminar when I discovered that U-GETPAID was useless and the POWERSITES website was very difficult to work with for a beginner. POWERSITES price structure changed within the first 30 days and it was not at all the rate that we students were supposed to receive.

When I tried to access U-GETPAID, it threw me into Commission Junction. This gave me the impression that CJ was owned by Whitney. After contacting CJ and asking questions, they informed me that CJ was in no way connected to the Russ Whitney organization and that CJs’ lawyers were looking into the matter.

Part of our great package also included a free e-mail address. To someone completely ignorant to the internet I assumed that this feature was a real plus. Has anyone out there ever paid for an e-mail address? (By the way, our e-mail was set up with hotmail. I currently have several hotmail addresses, all free and easy to obtain so why would one give me the impression that this was something special?)

In regards to websites, I have a very fine hobby site going at geocities. It is 100% free and all WYSIWYG. Very simple for a beginner and lots of file space. I stumbled across geocities on my own and am curious as to why Whitneys’ training does not tell new comers like myself about the abundance of free sites out there. Actually I know the answer probably has to do with RW making something for each person who signs up with a site he recommends. I have now problem with that, it is good busines for him, but it would have been very nice of RW to inform us of our options. After all the whole idea for attending any seminar is to make money, not spend more than necessary…isn’t it?

Mr. Slivers’ comment regarding people who do in fact cancel after the first day, due to inability to afford the training, really does not stand up.

I paid cash for my training and could afford to do so. Had I known the poor quailty and poor service I would have received, I too would have asked for a refund in the first day, as would the others I have had contact with since the seminar. (All who, by the way, could afford the training).

I did try to get a refund for the $1500 worth of useless software I ordered. I spoke with another student who had received his software and he, being much more knowledgable of the internet, advised me to try and get my money back. He had time to review the software and found it of little value.

When I asked for a refund prior to it shipment, I was refused because my 3 day cancellation period had expired.

I did not expect to become an internet Zen master overnight, but I did expect to be treated better than I, and many others, have been treated by the Russ Whitney organization.

My e-mail box is always open for input. Everytime I post in a forum, I get mail, mostly from people with the same complaints I have.

I am not a regular here, I posted a few times back in the summer and early fall. The only reason I found this forum was because I had a legimate issue and this seemed to be the place to express that issue. The only reason I am active here again is due to the fact that someone e-mailed me and said Russ was active here now.

I am easy to please and would have never even found this place if Whitneys’ program was not such a disappointment.


P.S. If there are any investigative types out there, please do not hesitate to contact me.


Posted by Brandi S on March 21, 2001 at 11:34:23:


Forward an email to me at - Make it to the attention of BrandiS/Russ Whitney. Give me your full name, address and date of the training you attended. Also, note on the email whether or not you had a partner involved.

I will, personally, walk it through the customer service process, have the file pulled, and look into the validity of your issue as posted here. It is and always has been our policy to take every appropriate action to resolve any valid customer service issue; as we have been doing at the Whitney Companies for over 15 years.

It is always our intention to provide quality customer service.

Will await your response.

Customer Service Supervisor