Should I buy MFH now, or wait until the Crash? - Posted by Mike Reilly

Posted by Earl Allen Boek on April 03, 2010 at 16:40:52:

Well that was really a loaded question. My answer, if you know something we don’t, I’d go ahead and “wait for the crash.” Smile

Someone above posted they heard “experts” say that Gold is going to $10,000 an ounce., Well I expect that would be the time to start selling your gold and start investing in commercial real estate.

As a licensed loan agent with over 20 years in hard to fund transactions, I would first like to thank Ray above for his thought-full and detailed post and explanations. And a tip of my real estate hat to him.

After reading just several of his articles here and a few of his post, I have a better understanding of the commercial markets we find ourselves in, than watching dozens of so called commercial Gurus webinars and reading in length everything I can find on the topic now for the past couple of months.

I have stayed out of the residential REO and foreclosure markets, though at first, I gave classes
and seminars and earned a living helping folks save their homes and teaching others how they could be
honest and ethical and still invest in the market.

That effort on my part fell flat on it’s face when I
that market flat-lined so badly, and I stopped. It was not because I could not have made big money, I assure you, but because, 1) I found it all a little distasteful for my liking and 2) I have a duty to my investors, and normally would not advise they invest in something that is about to lose 1/2 it’s value.

That being said, I do not have the same concerns about
the commercial investors currently upside down, or going upside down.

My first deal was a commercial office complex, something I would not suggest today. I did nearly everything wrong and still created nearly $1 million
in income in twelve months, even making $98,600 at close. The office complex had been empty 3 years when I bought it.

I do not have the connections to the industry that Ray appears to have, or the hands on experience, except in the money arena, perhaps, but for my money and many others will tell you this, the smart buy in commercial is self-storage. Now that is no great secret perhaps…but this is…it’s original. My own ideas.

I’m looking for large properties, warehouses, and building that I can buy on the cheap and convert to storage. I call it, I guess, smile, My Commercial Short Sale, Self-Storage Conversions Strategy.

I have coupled it with a recommended LLC investment vehicle and a real estate investment services business you can offer to dentist, doctors and other related professionals anyone can use to create investment groups in any city. I intend to license the programs use to affiliates for a fee and offer it nationally on webinars and quarterly and semi-annual seminars.

Ray, if your reading these post, and I know you do, I’d love to team up with someone as sharp as you are and offer your package along with my own.

That’s about all you get without me having you fill out one of Rays Non-circumvention agreements and if I told you more well…I’d have to hunt you down and kill you. Good luck on your investing. EAB

Should I buy MFH now, or wait until the Crash? - Posted by Mike Reilly

Posted by Mike Reilly on March 24, 2010 at 23:10:15:

Hi Ray, and everyone else,
I’m an architect in eastern Virginia, but I don’t have much experience in REI. (I’m not practicing architecture; I’m a Project Manager on an Army base). I’ve read there’s going to be a Commercial crash this year. Also, I follow Richard Roop, who says we’re about to enter the bad part of the 2007-2017 Depression, with the DOW going down to 4,000 or worse. I’ve bought David Lindahl’s home study course, and his people want me to spend a lot of money for his coaching program.

Should I buy MFH (or storage or Commercial) now, or buy SFH with Roop’s Free & Clear program, or just wait until we get to the Depression bottom? Do you think we’re about to have a Depression? Is this a good time for me to buy David Lindahl’s coaching program (is it the best program and direction to go in)?
Thanks, Mike Reilly

Re: Should I buy MFH now, or wait until the Crash? - Posted by john

Posted by john on April 08, 2010 at 02:21:33:

You should never really wait to buy real estate, start a business or live your dreams. Although it’s wise to keep tabs on the market and here other opinions, you have to do what the numbers tell you to do. Although people have been talking about it for several years, the crash in commercial real estate has not happened. The reason being is that the lenders are more likely to work through the debt than they are on the residential side. There’s just more upside because of the revenue/interest that these bigger properties produced. On the residential side there are some real opportunities out there with foreclosures along with rising cap rates. Don’t be the deer caught in the headlights like the rest of the world, proceed forth as an investor. It is the investor that holds this economy together by taking the risk, and it is the investor that profits when everyone else is fearful.

My two cents… and a very long post - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on March 25, 2010 at 16:40:28:

Mike,

As Mark (SDCA) noted below, the much-hyped “crash” in Commercial Real Estate (ComRE) is more like letting the air out of a balloon through a very small valve. Current activity indicates that the worst may actually be behind us.

Here?s the short version:

Transaction volume for >$5mm assets was down 90% in 2009 from 2008. It fell so close to zero that any activity at all would produce an impressive percentage increase and still not be anywhere near normal, but volume has picked up considerably in recent months.

Valuations for healthy assets are down about 20% from the peak, and 40%-65% for distressed assets, and seem to have found a plateau if not quite a perceived bottom. The wild card is rampant uncertainty in the capital markets about the short- and long-term economic outlook. Think health insurance reform, uncertain tax policy, financial regulatory reform, energy costs, and gov’t deficits.

As an aside, there is an old-school sales axiom that says, ?a confused mind says no?. The current political climate has paralyzed not only the capital markets, but made decisions by the private sector regarding what investments to make, defer or cancel, and which jobs to create, maintain or eliminate virtually impossible to evaluate. For that reason I am not optimistic we will see anything close to a strong rebound in 2010. The elections may or may not settle things down, and the best case is for some clarity in 2011.

Back to real estate… and the looong version:

The increase in transaction volume is due to several factors. The negative economic conditions have persisted for so long (27 months and counting) that over-leveraged owners can’t hold property off the market any longer. So listing activity has picked up and sales activity will follow as the bid/ask spread narrows between buyers and sellers.

The good news is that supply is firmly in check. Unlike past recessions, changes to banking regs have prevented a flood of foreclosures so the damage to valuations is contained to the most egregious cases, mostly among the mega-deals that have collapsed from the weight of debt.

Contrary to the hype, there is not a roaring market in bank-owned short sales in ComRE. The FDIC and Fed continue to tweak the regulatory guidelines to avoid a wholesale write-down of ComRE bank loan portfolios. In all but the worst cases banks can now look at a three- to five-year time horizon to deal with problem credits without increasing reserves (a critical point), as opposed to the former requirements for anticipatory loan loss reserves and immediate liquidation of REO’s. As long as the property is producing some income the bank is able to avoid foreclosing, and hence has little incentive for a short sale, unlike residential assets which produce no income and decline in value the longer they are vacant.

That is an enormous relief valve to avoid the glut of supply that led to the total meltdown of ComRE in the late eighties and early nineties. The market has responded in kind. The benchmark for all commercial real estate (ComRE) assets are credit-tenant NNN lease (CTL) deals, which are now trading around 7.75%-8%, roughly about 175-225 basis points (bp) above the 2007 peak of 6% (as low as 5% on the west coast).

Everything else is valued at roughly a 150-300 bp spread above CTLs, which puts average assets at 9%-10% asking cap rates, 12% and higher for those with some “hair” on them (industry parlance for assets with short leases, high vacancy, heavy deferred maintenance, etc.).

It’s no coincidence that this valuation paradigm reflects an almost perfect “reversion to the mean” of valuation over the last twenty years. It also returns the focus of valuation to cash flow vs. appreciation. This is the fundamental attraction of ComRE in the first place, which was lost in the go-go years. I am personally glad to see it because I ran out of stuff to sell, and have waited a very long time to buy at values that make money.

Capital is available, but selective. Community banks are aggressively chasing market share they lost to Wall Street investment banks in the boom years. Underwriting is generally tight, but there is a lot of capital these banks need to put to work, and as the market regains momentum the terms are already easing. I?ve gotten a couple of very attractive quotes from banks in recent weeks in the range of 4.75% fixed rate, 20-year am, three-year reset, with limited recourse.

The major headwind holding back activity in ComRE is the lack of securitized financing, known as commercial mortgage backed securities (CMBS). There hasn’t been a multi-payer CMBS issue since July 2008, after a peak of $307b in 2007. This is important because CMBS is the major take-out finance vehicle that provides non-recourse financing to the investor, and allows the bank credit used for development and turnarounds to be recycled into new deals.

Recently there have been nascent stirrings of new CMBS issues. But the recent activity is only for the top end of the market (>$10mm) and with very conservative LTV’s of about 65%. Restoration of CMBS is the key to recovery in ComRE transaction volume, and forms the foundational footings for stable valuations. I talk to a number of capital sources on a regular basis. No one I’ve spoken with expects a return to normalcy in CMBS for at least another year.

This problem is also the key to opportunity. I?m using strategies that utilize blended or mix-and-match structures to get deals done. These include bank financing (see the ?white-knight? discussions here on the newsgroup), private lending and equity, equity-participation vs. straight seller financing, note purchases, JV’s, master leases, etc.

This is not an environment when any one technique is the magic bullet (if there ever was one). It’s an era where each deal must be structured to address unique characteristics of local market conditions, property condition, and seller motivation/needs to create an investment plan with multiple exit strategies that make sense.

In short, it’s a dealmaker’s nirvana, but you need a multitude of tools in your box.

No one property type is a ticket to success either. It’s all about your market. In his post below Mark warns against retail and office product, and in his market that is wise advice.

In my market in SW Virginia, retail tenant activity is also dead as a doornail (true in most markets nationwide) but office properties are doing quite well in certain sectors. Multi-family is suffering from lack of pricing power in rents and high vacancies, even (most surprisingly) in student housing. Single-family numbers here are abysmal… way too much supply, tight mortgage conditions, and a dearth of buyers due to employment issues. Even the ugly-house buyers and lease-option sellers have quit running ads.

Your market may have some of these attributes, or not. It takes research to find out. If you don?t know how to research your market, learn it before you do anything else. Above all don’t make such decisions based on hunches or what a broker or seller tells you.

Are we about to have a Depression? I hope not, but it is certainly within the realm of possibility if you consider no resolution of the uncertainties noted above. My strategy is to take a defensive posture, which translates into structuring deals for worst-case scenarios, a topic I have written extensively about over the last several years.

My own forecast assumes an extended period of low-growth, high-taxation, high energy costs and weak demand. But believe it or not, within those parameters are islands of prosperity. A few examples:

Three sectors of the economy that are experiencing above trend growth are adjunct health care services, legal/accounting services, and government agencies. We?ve targeted those sectors in several ways to fill office space and spur downtown redevelopment projects. Sale-leasebacks are very popular again. This is not as complicated as it may sound and used to be the bread and butter of the business. Office/warehouse properties that house service contractors are another sweet spot of demand.

There is also an opportunity to indirectly benefit from the growth of government in dealing with non-profits as tenants. A lot of the stimulus money that is yet to be deployed will be funneled through these organizations, and there are ancillary benefits to dealing with them; e.g. exemptions from property taxes (in some states, check yours) for the portion of the property leased to a registered 501(c)(3); state and federal subsidies and improvement grants; connections to sister agencies; like-kind tax credits and deductions; etc., and more to come. (The Senate bill passed last week contains the bulk of the tax breaks for this year but I haven?t read it yet. I?ve often said that our tax code is like a theme park that updates the rides each year, and from what I hear this one has some doozies.)

Hope this isn’t an overwhelming amount of information. I can’t give you a specific review on the programs you mentioned because I have not personally reviewed them. My own library has literally hundreds of books, courses and manuals on real estate and finance. I?ve gotten something from almost all of them.

As a shameless plug, I?ll offer my own book, ?Dealmaker?s Guide to Commercial Real Estate? for your consideration. I did my best to incorporate my 25 years of experience through five previous recessions (and three booms). The book is structured to take you from the very first deal to advanced deal structures and finance techniques. Included are a variety of tools, strategies and structures that can be applied in every environment. As a bonus you will also receive a copy of my 2010 Commercial Real Estate Forecast, a 50-page report with lots of pretty charts and graphs (and some ugly ones), with even more detail than offered above about my outlook. It?s available here on CRE Online, and you’ll find it is attractively priced for a comprehensive practice manual on the subject. The direct link is:

http://www.creonline.com/Ray-Alcorn/order-now.html

Best of dealmaking,

Ray

p.s. You can find reviews and comments from readers of the course by searching the archives here on the newsgroup (button at top of page) with the search term ?DealMakers Guide? (no quotes needed)

Re: Should I buy MFH now, or wait until the Crash? - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on March 25, 2010 at 12:11:14:

Here is my .02. And that is probably about what it’s worth.

The commercial crash has been reasonably widely predicted. My guess is that it will not materialize in anything like the magnitude of the residential market- mostly due to the income production of the properties as well as the unwillingness of the lenders to take the monster hits. There will probably be some short sale opportunities however. Two notable exceptions are retail and office. I would NOT be a buyer in those markets. I expect the consumer to continue to be weak.

As for Roop… there are always “experts” like him predicting… something. Harvey Dent has a similar prediction. I think his number is DOW 5000. His time frame is summerish. So if you wanted to start looking now and look to close late fall you would probably know whether he is a savant or not.

The issue is that these guys have everything to gain and nothing to lose by running their mouths. If they are right then they beat their chests, talk about what Nostradamuses they are and sell lots more of whatever they are selling. If not, then they just fade into oblivion. Anyone ever read “Dow 36000”? We aren’t hearing much from THAT guy nowadays are we?

GL,

Mark

Shameless promo is welcome and appropriate - Posted by CarolFL/UT

Posted by CarolFL/UT on April 02, 2010 at 07:56:14:

It, too,is a doozie!
Nice to be back and reading such thoughtful posts.
CarolFL/UT

Re: My two cents… and a very long post - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on March 25, 2010 at 21:33:43:

This is a GENIUS post…

what that means is “standard” for Ray and about 3 levels deeper of analysis than anyone else on this board is doing.

Thanks for sharing.

Mark

Re: Should I buy MFH now, or wait until the Crash? - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on March 25, 2010 at 16:49:11:

Hi Mark,

I had to go look… it was Dent who forecast the 35,000 Dow… here’s the quote from the back of his 1998 book, “The Roaring 2000’s: Building the Wealth and Lifestyle You Desire in the Greatest Boom in History”:

“The Great Boom is Coming […] A Dow that will reach at least 21,500 and possibly 35,000 by the year 2008.”

So some of these experts don’t fade to oblivion, they just act oblivious to any prior opinions!

ray

Re: Shameless promo is welcome and appropriate - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on April 02, 2010 at 10:05:14:

Hello Stranger!

Kelly just asked a few days ago if I heard from you. I had every intention of sending you an email to check up but, as usual, have a hard time matching the thought with the action… my adult ADD is running rampant these days!

Hope all is well… give us a call, would love to catch up.

ray

Re: Should I buy MFH now, or wait until the Crash? - Posted by Mike Reilly

Posted by Mike Reilly on April 06, 2010 at 21:05:37:

Ray,
Yes, Richard Roop referenced Dr. Jack Lessinger, Harry Dent, and Robert Prechter in his presentation. I have been more than a little scared by this. It makes sense to me, because Washington has been spending like insane people. Richard provides his Free & Clear system, which he says will work through the depression, because the sellers are carrying back a large 2nd at 0%, principle only payments or no payments.
[I’m not trying to push his system, just filling in more information. Actually, multi-family (& maybe commercial later) is where I’d like to be, as long as it’s not going to crash after I buy it.]

Re: Should I buy MFH now, or wait until the Crash? - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on March 25, 2010 at 21:26:04:

hahahahah… We are BOTH right.

I was actually talking about THIS book:

Where are Glassman and Hassett nowadays?

My apologies to HARRY Dent. His book is here: