Success Magazine....Nat't Home Buyer. Question - Posted by JohnB_NJ

Posted by JohnBoy on April 12, 1999 at 24:13:09:

I see now. So your defense is, we rip people off for only $500 instead of thousands that other gurus out there are charging! So that make us better than they are! Give me a break!

First of all. I know nothing about Givens. I’ve heard the name a couple of times but thats about it. Sheets has a good course for beginners. It’s only $168. It doesn’t promise to fund your deals. His consulting thing offers to consult with you do help walk you through some deals. Again, it doesn’t promise to fund your deals for you, only to consult. I’ve heard both good and bad things about it. You can go over to newsgroup II and read all kinds of posts pertaining to his mentoring program. I haven’t heard anything good pertaining to Whitney’s programs. But at the same time, I don’t see him over here trashing other gurus like nationwide has done over the last week. What his program offers I’m not even sure about. LeGrand has some highly successful students that visit this site regularly. They have said good things about his boot camps. I’ve heard many good things about his courses. I’ve also seen LeGrand speak at the CREO Convention in Dallas. It appears he sells and delivers what he promises. In fact one of his students that is well known on this site is signing up again for another boot camp after spending $5000 on that last one she attended. What does that say for his boot camps?

On the other hand I’ve heard mostly bad things about Nationwide. I’ve read numerous posts made by their customers that claim to have submitted deals that exceeded their buying criteria but when it comes time to fund the deals they make up excuses as to why their deals don’t meet their criteria. Some of these people have even posted the details of those deals they submitted to Nationwide which any moron could plainly see they were excellent deals and if Nationwide was really interested in funding deals like they promote to be their biggest selling point to get people to sign up with them, then there’s no reason those deals should have been turned away.

Nationwide has tried to trash this board for the past week by trashing the authors that sell courses here and justify their program by comparing their price to others such as you’ve just done. The bottom line is, what does any of that have to with Nationwide?? So far the only thing it sounds like is that Nationwide is a good company because they charge a lot less than others out there do and so what if Nationwide doesn’t deliver on what they promise!

What carries more weight with me is what other customers have to say about what their experience has been with another company. Naturally your bound to hear some bad with all the good. No one can please 100% of the people all the time. But when idiots that make such ridiculous posts with such lame excuses and use unprofessional sleazy business tactics like trashing other companies as their only defense and justification as to what makes their company so superior to others, one has to stop and question why these idiots would actually think someone would fall for something so lame. Wouldn’t you agree?

One person made a post claiming to be someone with Nationwide and said they had never had one complaint. Do they think people are really that stupid? Then in another post someone from Nationwide claimed even though they had a lot of complaints, at least they refunded the customers money. So which is it? Either they had a lot of complaints or they didn’t. I believe the second response more than the first one. The only sad thing is according to the posts made by past customers of Nationwide has been they couldn’t get a refund when they called Nationwide to get their money back. It appears that the only way to get their money back is to go through all the trouble of filing a complaint with the BBB, or general attorney, etc. Then only will they give the customer a refund. When the people that were posting here last week were coming off as someone that worked for Nationwide, they suddenly changed their tune when they were confronted here by one of their unsatisfied customers asking for a refund. Then the response changed to, I don’t work for Nationwide, I’m just one of their customers that had good success with their program!

Since the people from Nationwide has started this trashing here trying to promote their program, they have done nothing but respond back with lame excuses for their reasons to not provide any references. If they were such a great company that stood behind what they were promoting to sell, then why all the lame excuses? Why all the need to trash other gurus? Why can’t they give any references? Why can’t they provide any kind of proof that they do in fact fund deals for their customers? The only thing I hear is lame excuses. Then they try to pass everything off as it doesn’t matter if they don’t fund any deals because the program alone has so much good information that will help people to get started in real estate! Well that’s just fine and dandy! Only I have one problem with that. That’s NOT what they pitch to their customers to sell their program. They pitch that they will fund your deals and split the profits with you. Then they use the excuse that since your deal always seems to never quite meet our buying criteria, we’ll help walk you through it so you can do it on your own. So far there hasn’t been one person to come forward with any proof that Nationwide has in fact funded a deal for them. Vickie posted some addresses claiming to be deals that Nationwide funded for her, but so far only one of those addresses could be verified and the records show the same property sold in 96 for $50k and again in 98 for $51k. Hardly the type of deal Nationwide would fund. I think they need a little more than only a $1k spread to justify funding a deal, wouldn’t you think? Another one of the properties she gave has an incomplete address and when asked to furnish that address, she refuses to respond with more lame excuses that I’ve been awfully quiet since she posted them. Another person responded to her post regarding those deals she claims to have done with Nationwide and has so far refused to respond to it.

All I can say is this. If you people don’t work for Nationwide and are just trying to defend them, your doing them much more harm than you are any good with all this guru trashing, and hot air blowing. If you are people that work for Nationwide then all I can say is your doing a great job of making yourselves out as a bunch of idiots! And that is the facts! Don’t take my word for it. Scroll down the newsgroup and read the other posts that got started from Nationwide. Search the archives on this site and read all the posts that were made last week that got started by Nationwide. Notice all the phony names posted with the same e-mail from the ones defending Nationwide. Notice the ones with the phony e-mails that were posted in defense of Nationwide. Go read them all and see what a bunch of lame answers that were given in defense of Nationwide.

All I can say is who ever you people are, you did a good job on making Nationwide out to be bad company to do business with. Based on those lame posts that have been made, Nationwide, I DO NOT RECOMMEND!

Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by JohnB_NJ

Posted by JohnB_NJ on April 11, 1999 at 06:29:35:


I have read some posts the past few days about the not so favorable results people have had with Nationwide. I do not have any comment on those posts because I do not have any knowledge of the company or its policies. I know I would not personally get involved with that type of partnership arrangement.
But my question is, is Success Magazine or National Home Buyers a similiar kind of operation?? The reason I ask, is that I received some “junk mail” the other day inviting me and a “friend” to a free local seminar/workshop. The catch phrase they use in the header of their letter says, “FREE CONFERENCE TEACHES YOU HOW TO BUY REAL ESTATE AT WHOLESALE PRICES RATHER THAN RETAIL. FOR HUGE EQUITY. HUGE PROFITS”
(sorry about the caps, but I wanted to type it out the way it appears). I know that this is a marketing ploy to draw people in.
Anyway, I have been on the site for nearly a year reading and educating myself. I have purchase several courses that have help me start my business but I always keep an eye out for information and new ideas. I never make an uneducated decision. I value the opinions of this website and those that spend their valuable time helping others.

My other question is, what’s the marketing approach the above mention uses. Does anyone have any information, warnings, comments, and/or recommendations on this company?? The seminar is only a few miles away and I will leave my wallet at home. But I hate to waste 3 or 4 hours on junk or some high pressure sales pitch.

As always, thank you.


Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Stop the Madness! - Posted by JohnB_NJ

Posted by JohnB_NJ on April 13, 1999 at 23:41:17:

OK OK. This thread has gotten too long… I just wanted to know what you guys thought of “blank” and “blank”. (I can’t say the names because I fear a long thread again, LOL)

Vicky, I am confused. I read all of the follow ups and I can’t seem to find your answer to the simple question of a few varifiable addresses (full street address) of your deals that were funded by “bleep”. Would you be so kind as to drop me a line with your deals. I would be very interested. Really, I would.

Vicki, I wish you the best of success with your RE investing.


Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by Charles - DFW

Posted by Charles - DFW on April 11, 1999 at 14:25:08:

I have both company’s programs. I will sell you either/both for half price, and I am still taking advantage of you! I’d even pay shipping!!!

The free seminar is pretty much worth what you pay for it. It is pretty much a teaser to get you to sign up for their programs.

I have not run into a situation where I could not do a deal without using the service they provide. From the resources on this site, people and materials, you will be able to put together deals that neither company would touch.

But… if you want I’ll go 60% off!!!

Good luck,

John, do you see a pattern here? - Posted by ScottE

Posted by ScottE on April 11, 1999 at 13:14:22:

Everytime one of these NationWide-types comes along with a ‘deal-making machine’, there are hoards of negative posts. This alone should steer you in the other direction. Save your money for a program that seems much more beneficial like Ed and Terry’s program.
If that’s not possible, I am sure the knowledgeable folks on this site will help see you to your goals.


Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by Kim

Posted by Kim on April 11, 1999 at 10:29:19:

I can’t vouch for Home Buyers but I have worked for Nationwide for the past few months.

For $495, you get: a 300 page manual detailing every aspect of real estate investing; a personal mentor who helps you throughout your deals and answers all of your questions; and funds available to do deals.

I have done four deals with them!!! The previous posts continue to ask, where are all of the references for Nationwide? Here I am, so you can listen to me or listen to some bias amateurs who listen to the negative posts and forget about the positive posts.

What is the difference between working on deals with Nationwide and Ron LeGrand or Carleton Sheets? The big difference is for $495 membership fee, Nationwide will partner deals, consult, and train. For thousands of dollars, LeGrand and Sheets will let you attend a motivation seminar, coach you, and put up none of their money to partner with you!!!

Where is the criticism of the $5,000 +/- for these boot camps and coaching calls? A lot of people criticize spending $495 for Nationwide’s services and saying following this website is cheaper; are you prepared to criticize the others for charging thousands or are you going to say, 'the information is invaluable!! That’s fine and may be true, but Nationwide’s services were invaluable to many beginners like myself, so don’t criticize our opinions and facts.

Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by John J

Posted by John J on April 11, 1999 at 09:19:50:


Success/National Homebuyers uses the same scheme as Nationwide. Promises of money to partner with you, but absolutely not a single reference from anyone who has been successful with them. They charge about five times as much as Nationwide does to sign up,

I have collected a large number of recent postings about both organizations as well as Enelow. If anyone is interested in reading them, then please e-mail me and I’ll be glad to send them to you.

John J.

Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on April 11, 1999 at 09:17:33:

I would go. I love these things (as long as you do what you say and leave your wallet at home). Take a notebook and take notes. All it takes is one good idea to make you money. And if the presentation isn’t working for you or when they get to the high pressure part, just ge up and leave. I went to one of these last week (Peter Conti and David Finkel selling a $4K sandwich lease bootcamp). I took lots of notes and then left once they got to the sales part.



Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Stop the Madness! - Posted by James - AZ

Posted by James - AZ on April 14, 1999 at 10:04:57:

If you go to the archives you’ll find all of Vickie’s addresses she supplied.

Scott, thanks. Yup, I am signed up for Terry and Ed’s workshop (nt) - Posted by JohnB_NJ

Posted by JohnB_NJ on April 11, 1999 at 15:11:09:

Re: John, do you see a pattern here? - Posted by James - CO

Posted by James - CO on April 11, 1999 at 13:19:47:


I am a 12 year veteran of real estate investing and I for one know of many individuals who have used Nationwide successfully.

Sounds to me like Scott E is a bit discouraged in his career and is doing what is natural - attacking a company he probably never has been involved with.

Use your own best judgement

Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by SCook85

Posted by SCook85 on April 13, 1999 at 24:49:19:

I just one time want to see some real deals and proof. I have my brother obtaining a refund because he can’t get anything done with Nationwide. I had an opportunity to read his so called 300 page manual of everything about real estate. I was not impressed with the content of the information and the constant reminder that “if your deal does not meet Nationwide’s buying criteria…” They should have just said “When your deal…” It was pretty obvious while reading the material that the intent is not to fund anything. I came to that conclusion before reading these threads. So do us all a favor, prove us wrong- simply back up your claims up and you can put a rest to this whole thing.


Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by JpohnBoy

Posted by JpohnBoy on April 11, 1999 at 15:37:43:

I hear a lot of people critcize the cost of LeGrands boot camps. But at the same time I hear of people that are well known here that have paid to go to those boot camps and have made a lot of money with them. Not only have they made a lot of money with, but they backed it up by showing the checks they cashed from the title company. The difference is, I see people backing up what they say with LeGrands boot camps. I don’t see that with anyone from nationwide. Instead I see people from nationwide that have come to this board trashing the people that sells courses here, trashing LeGrands boot camps, and trashing the Sheets consulting program. And most of those posts have been made by the same person using different names on different posts! What does that say about nationwide’s business tactics??

You scroll down this board to a post made by “Chris Underwood” that says he just called the attornies general office and got a good rating on nationwide. But that Chris Underwood is the same person that was posting under the name Jan in a previous thread on nationwide. You can also type “nationwide” in the archives search and read all those posts that were made about nationwide.

If nationwide was such a reputable business, then why the need for all the phony names from the same person posting hot air about nationwide?? Why the need to criticize the other gurus boot camps?? You people started with the criticizing to promote your own company. Is that what nationwide represents?? Then why are they doing that?? Why do they keep making excuses about supplying references?? They claim the BBB is their only source of references you need. But the BBB in their area has been expelled from using the BBB and the BBB’s torch symbol as their logo. It appears they had a history of bad management down there! Wonder what that is implying?? Can we say “payoffs”?? Maybe??? You tell me!

Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by JohnB_NJ

Posted by JohnB_NJ on April 11, 1999 at 15:35:07:

Thank you, Kim, for taking the time to give me your insight to Nationwide. I am glad that you have closed 4 deals. That must have been a great feeling of accomplishment. I would really appreciate the details of your deal. I love to hear about deals that others have done. Would you mind sharing the way the deals were structured?
Again, thanks for responding to my post. I appreciate it and I appreciate all the other responses in this thread.

Have a great day, and good investing!


Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by Matthew Chan

Posted by Matthew Chan on April 11, 1999 at 11:31:33:

Is there a website for Nationwide discussing the program as you have outlined? Thanks!

Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by Derek

Posted by Derek on April 11, 1999 at 12:02:28:

You seem to be so critical of Nationwide and have demanded to see proof of deals and references.

If you are such an advocate against Nationwide, I for one would like to see proof that you signed up with Nationwide and the deals that you submitted that were rejected.

Somehow, I feel like I’m going to here, ‘Well I never got involved with them but I know of others that did’.

My opinion: let those that have been directly involved with Nationwide respond and save your opinions for something you have been involved with; unless you have become a spokesperson for others.

Concentrate on your business and you will someday succeed!

Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Question - Posted by Scott(OR)

Posted by Scott(OR) on April 11, 1999 at 10:23:20:

Do not even waste your time! I went and did not leave my wallet at home. I ended up paying for the course and was very disappointed. I am trying to get a refund. Hindsight is 20\20. I could have been hunting up deals in that three hour time frame. Hope this helps,


Re: Success Magazine…Nat’t Home Buyer. Stop the Madness! - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on April 14, 1999 at 11:33:54:

They don’t check out. One shows a sale in 96 for $50k and another sale in 98 for $51k. Are you saying Nationwide will fund a deal that only has a $1k profit margin??? Another one of her addresses is incomplete which she refuses to disclose. What about your 8 addresses?? Always another lame excuse!

Every time one of your customers respond to one of your posts asking for their money back, then suddenly no one works for Nationwide. Just more lame excuses!

Re: Scott, thanks. Yup, I am signed up for Terry and Ed’s workshop (nt) - Posted by Mark Nyman

Posted by Mark Nyman on April 11, 1999 at 21:30:15:

I am also signed up for Terry and Ed’s seminar. Where is it located? I know Atlanta but what hotel?

I can’t seem to find the times and information online. Thanks.

Re: John, do you see a pattern here? - Posted by ScottE

Posted by ScottE on April 11, 1999 at 13:39:54:

Where did you extrapolate that I was discouraged in my career?
Is it that kind of spewing that lost you every match in your HS debate club?
James, for as experienced an investor as you claim to be, you sure DON’T have your head planted in the creative sand. As I have requested from MANY other NationWide advocates, put up some (real) names and numbers or e-mail addresses. I’d be happy to contact them to verify what you are saying.
Otherwise, put a cork in it.