Tacky - Posted by Hank

Posted by Hank on July 13, 2002 at 18:46:38:

I see what you mean.

I suppose the reason I’m p_ssed is because I just found out about this a few hours ago. I should just take a coupl’a minutes over the next week or so with a few influencial people and puree this guys gonads.

The realtor is a degenerate because the house went to auction. They couldn’t sell it in time. What a surprise. And, perhaps more importantly, it was my house that went to auction. Title transfers when the deed is delivered.

That and a nickle, I know, will get me a cup of coffee. We didn’t record the deed right away because, well, things are more flexable when that can be held off for a little bit.

I’ve gotta couple’a other reasons why I don’t like realtors. They will say anything to get listings. I will not say the things let’s say, I used to say to get accounts when I sold stock. That’s what I like about this biz. I just talk to people. Tell 'em what I think w/very little BS. Three times in the last month I told sellers that called me that they didn’t need me. Told them to sell FSBO.

How many realtors would ever say such a thing?

Oh yeah, the other day I gotta call about this house that is 3 to 4 times the size of the other houses (mostly rentals)in the area. House will be at auction in 2 months.

So the seller tells me that the guys with the yellow jackets came down and made their pitch to get the listing the other day. They told him the price per square foot gobblygook.

“Well Mr. Jones, the houses in this neighborhood are selling at an average price per square foot of _. Now let’s multiply your 3000 square feet by ____ and we’ll have the CMA of your house. We’ll lower it by $ for a quick sale. Sign here and let us go to bat for you.”

These degenerates came up with a figure of 170k. Take off 100k, and that’s what the houses are selling for in the area. Ahhh, but that 145k list price will have those buyers lined up around the corner.

145k - 7% commission (10k) - closing costs (6k) - buyers discount (5k) and guess what? 125k is about what the seller owe. Isn’t that great how that worked out?


Tacky - Posted by Hank

Posted by Hank on July 13, 2002 at 14:24:09:

So I’m at my cozy little investors meeting the other night. Pizza, flipping contracts, exchanging houses and ideas, etc, etc.

I see a new guy there. I say hi and get his card.

Anyway, later at the 7-11 I see him again. We talk about houses and how I like his card and I tell him about another meeting he might like to attend if he wants to sell his contracts.

I get to the counter with him behind me. Lady behind the counter is a lady I’ve come to know because she’s been talking to me about selling her house in the past. I ask her for her phone number so I can call later and arrange an appointment.

So the guy behind me waits till I’m out the store to give her his pitch. She didn’t tell me if this guy was trying to talk me down or not.

I mentioned this story to an investor buddy of mine whose been in the biz for 30+ years and knows everybody. He said it was tacky.

I respect a guy that’s hungry and shouts to the world that he buys houses, but what he did was dumb.

A good reputation takes a long time to build and only a minute to destroy.

I sent the guy an e-mail telling him my thoughts.

Now I’m not a thin skinned guy. I used to be a stockbroker in NY and I’m used to guys doing anything to get a lead. My locked desk was broken into more than once to steal my prospects. The second time they got nothing.

Am I wrong?

Re: Tacky - another lesson - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on July 14, 2002 at 07:14:37:

Another lesson not mentioned: When you get into a bidding war with another buyer, the price goes up.

I try to avoid this.

If you find your own deal, or wait till the other bidder blows, you have a better chance of getting a good deal.

This is a good small town rule, I don’t know about places where there are 40 bidders on every deal, I think I would look for some other line of business LOL.

What’s a lesson here? - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in no CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in no CA) on July 13, 2002 at 19:53:48:


I don’t like what happened either. And don’t worry, I won’t do anything like that to you. Promise.

Now, I wonder if there is a lesson to be learned here. When you have another investor standing nearby whose ethics you do not know, maybe it would be a good idea to not talk about a possible deal. Wait until he is gone to discuss business, get a telephone number, etc.

Good InvestingRon Starr****

Re: Tacky - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on July 13, 2002 at 19:04:24:

Yes it was tacky, the ethics I was brought up with would have precluded horning in when I knew a friend or acquaintance was after a deal. It is his deal until he abandons it or gives you the OK.

If you find out about the deal independently and don’t know the other person is involved that’s OK but it is delicate to prove so usually the second one backs off.

Now that we are telling stories there was a lawyer I used to do business with. He once had a client who found a real steal on a building lot. He went to Mr. Lawyer to handle the transaction. Mr. Lawyer went behind his back and bought the lot for himself. Now that is tacky. P.S. The lot needed a lot of site work (bulldozer style) so that is why it was cheap, he made a crook out of himself for peanuts.

This same lawyer did the same kind of tricks and worse all the time, eventually he got arrested on eighty charges of defrauding his clients and sentenced to 3 years in prison, and that was back when they went easy on white collar crime.

Re: Tacky - Posted by Brian M. Powers(MI)

Posted by Brian M. Powers(MI) on July 13, 2002 at 15:39:25:

there is a lot of competition out there and i can gaurantee that it will not be last time someone else, even someone else you know, is trying to get the same deals as you are.

maybe this guy has something to offer that you can’t that will seal the deal and make it a win for her. in the end if you have the best deal to offer and she likes you then you will get it. if not, she will take the best one out there. maybe its him, or maybe its somebody else you had pizza with.
she deserves the best deal out there so if he is the one who can offer it and not you, you can’t complain.
i am told from time to time from sellers that “another investor had an offer that was a little better than yours so we went with him”. to which i always reply, “congratulations, please keep me in mind in the future if you or anyone you know needs to sell there home”.
personally, i would spend more time finding your next deal than worrying about this guy.
good luck…BMP

Re: Tacky - Posted by michaela

Posted by michaela on July 13, 2002 at 15:30:37:

being german, i’m pretty clear-cut about things like that: you screw me over once, i’ll avoid dealing with you again, at least in any kind of trustful way.
i’ve had it happen, that i had my local reia subgroup meet at one of my rehabs and the next day one of the members came back when i was gone and tried to hire my carpenter away, offering him more money to leave my job and work for him. needless to say, i spread the word very quickly, because the group’s there to help each other, not scam on each other. what goes around comes around. as you say, reputation takes a long time to build and very short to destroy. making more money on one deal by ripping someone else off only hurts you more in the long run.

Re: What’s a lesson here? / update - Posted by Hank

Posted by Hank on July 14, 2002 at 08:28:01:

I should’a hung out in front of the magazine rack and paged through those general intrest(generally T&A) mens magazines untill he left. What was I thinking.

When I drive up to a lis pens in my Hank van and see a realtor close by, I keep driving and come back.

The gentleman from the 7-11 e-mailed me back. Claims he was talking to the person behind him about houses and then gave his card to the cashier.


Well, I suppose I’ll just take him at his word.


Re: Tacky - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on July 13, 2002 at 19:06:27:

Forgot to mention he also got disbarred, lost his wife his home and all his dough.

The last I heard he was selling used cars out West.

Where do you draw the line? - Posted by Hank

Posted by Hank on July 13, 2002 at 17:29:42:

Let’s say your in your friends office and he get’s a call about a house. It sounds juicy. Do you:

a - Listen for the address so you can go down there and say " Whatever that guy will pay you, I’ll pay you X more"

b - Wait till your investor friend leaves the room, and then look at the pad on the desk and/or the caller ID for the info so you can outbid him.

c - Overcome the temptation to be a sc_mbag with morals and/or common sense.

I know all about competition. I don’t bother with the MLS or auctions because of it.

Just lost a deal with that would have netted 30k because some degenerate realtor stole the deal. God knows what they said about me. I could have recorded that deed and made a mess of everything.

Sometimes the time and energy to fight this kind of sh_t just isn’t worth it. After a day or two of high blood pressure I just decided to move on. C’est la vie.

This rat b_stard that tried to steal my deal at the 7-11 only knew of the deal because of my efforts. Her friend saw my “Hank Buys Houses” van. He could’ve handed her his card while I was paying for my beer – I mean soda.

This guy tried to take a shortcut. Where his shortcuts lead him will be anybody’s guess.

One place his efforts might lead is a place where private money is harder to get, and a place where other investors might not want to talk to him. Or worse.

Re: Tacky - Posted by michaela

Posted by michaela on July 13, 2002 at 17:16:17:


the way i read the post, though, the other investor found out about the deal, because he was in line and
because hank, who he’s been talking to, talked to her.
that is not normal competition, that i would consider unethical. even though it does happen, i think there should be a personal set of ethics, that people should operate with. unfortunately, not everyone has the same. there are just some things you shouldn’t do out of decency.

Re: Tacky - Posted by Brian M. Powers(MI)

Posted by Brian M. Powers(MI) on July 13, 2002 at 22:29:23:

i would argue that the circumstances are quite different when we are dealing with attorney/client relations as opposed to two guys standing in a 7-11.
just my opinion.

Re: Where do you draw the line? - Posted by Brian M. Powers(MI)

Posted by Brian M. Powers(MI) on July 13, 2002 at 17:54:43:

i wouldnt do a, b or c because i worry about what i am doing to generate leads not what the competition is doing. that’s not to say i dont have my eye on them but i try to focus in on what i am doing.

hank you seem pretty worked up over this…what is going to happen the first time a seller/buyer walks away from a deal 2 days before closing?
sure hank buys houses but hank is not the only game in town, and hank does not own the we buy houses market. its a tough business and some people (like your “friend”) don’t really care who’s toes they step on.
i live by the motto of what goes around comes around…so if it were me i would try and sign the deal w/ the lady and it didnt work out move on to the next, knowing you tried your best and knowing he’ll get his someday, some way.
i just hate to see you channeling so much of your time/energy towards this and getting as stressed out as you appear to be. instead of using it to stew over this missed oppurtunity, channel it towards getting your next deal.
did the guy act in a manner that was less than desireable? sure. but i guarantee it will happen a couple more times should you continue investing in real estate.

curious though…why is the realtor a degenerate because he was able to nail the deal before you could?


Re: Tacky - Posted by Brian M. Powers(MI)

Posted by Brian M. Powers(MI) on July 13, 2002 at 17:41:52:

i’m not saying it was right/wriong, moral/immoral, ethical/unethical.
all i am saying is it is part of the business and something you have to accept that it is going to happen.

Re: Tacky - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on July 14, 2002 at 07:09:29:

A difference of degree rather than kind. Although the one was definitely unethical and censurable by the Law Society.