Tax Sale Properties-SCAM - Posted by Luke Ache

import · June 28, 2003, 6:14pm

Posted by Kristine-CA on June 29, 2003 at 01:38:10:

Luke: you don’t know of what you speak, man, and it’s starting to show. People stop paying taxes for many more reasons than because they have a worthless property. Granted, there are a ton of vacant lots that are junk at tax sales. However, there are all kinds of other properties. Some properties are owned by dead people. Some properties are owned by foundations or corporations or entities that do not exist and have no one who knows how to sell. Many properties are liened up the wazoo with none of the lienholders willing to take on the job of foreclosing. Some titles are so messed up you can’t even imagine.

Some people bought property for which they way overpaid. I mean way overpaid. We bought one two years ago where the owner paid a 25K for a vacant lot that wasn’t worth more than 5 or 6K. Turns out the taxes and HOA dues were about $1500.00 per year. Many owners in that development let them go to tax sale after they receive that first tax and HOA bill. We buy it for a few K and sell to the neighbor for twice as much. I have tried to buy from the owners, but they are still back there where they paid 25K. So they end up getting nothing. And I mean nothing because there aren’t even any excess proceeds to collect because the county sells it for less than the taxes due.

The reasons are endless why properties are at tax sale. Sometimes it is the one and only way to perfect title. I have a property that I have spent money on two attorneys and probate court and 2 sets of deeds. And at the last minute a huge lien shows up at the title company–one that took every last bit of equity. A lien that wasn’t on the litigation title report. I’m thinking of letting that property go to tax sale if I can’t solve the lien issue.

By the way: toxic mold and crack houses are solvable if you have $$ and you buy it right. Another great niche.

If more people thought like you did, there would be less competition, that’s for sure. Perhaps you can continue to spread the word?

Sincerely, Kristine

import · June 28, 2003, 6:14pm

Tax Sale Properties-SCAM - Posted by Luke Ache

Posted by Luke Ache on June 28, 2003 at 18:14:37:

Hi all…

I came across one of these infomercials on tv today and I was shocked by the amount of BS I heard from this guy. He makes tax sale properties look like, it is just a matter of finding them, “buying them” and then…wala…you got your 70,000 dollars property for “pennies on the dollar”. What makes me mad about this type of scam is that, a lot of naive people out there end up buying these courses, because they truly believe that they will be able to buy a home valued at $100,000 dollars for 200 dollars…I dont know how these ppl can sleep at night…one more scam added to the list.

Luke

import · June 29, 2003, 12:43pm

Re: Tax Sale Properties-SCAM - Posted by Jerry Martin NC

Posted by Jerry Martin NC on June 29, 2003 at 12:43:40:

Why so upset over such a small amount of money for this course? If you are not able to use it either send it back or throw it away. The people, including me, who replied to you have wasted enough time to buy 100 of his courses. Get over it.

import · June 29, 2003, 9:31am

Re: Tax Sale Properties-SCAM - Posted by Josephine

Posted by Josephine on June 29, 2003 at 09:31:22:

perhaps you could read this sucess story:

http://www.creonline.com/success-stories/ss-105.html

import · June 28, 2003, 9:46pm

Re: Tax Sale Properties-SCAM - Posted by Bill H

Posted by Bill H on June 28, 2003 at 21:46:39:

Luke:

Ron, Kristine, etc., all the rest of the guys and gals are giving you some good advice.

“There is no such thing as a free lunch.”

I buy tax deeds each year and will continue to do so. I agree with all that it used to be a gentleman’s arena but has turned FIERCELY competetive. AND; YES! you must have money to play the game.

I was recently in Great Falls,MOntana speaking with the treasurer’s office about tax liens there. I was informed that they had been “Swamped” by our good friends from Canada coming down. Seems someone had been doing tax lien seminars in Canada and they all, like you, wanted their $70,000 house for as you put it “pennies on the dollar”. When they found out, just like you did, that it takes work, effort and money…they stopped coming down.

Success…yes you have some. One I sort of like is a 3/4 acre lake front lot I got for $81.25 and sold it for $18,500…not to bad.

Failures…yes I have them also… Got some burned out crack houses, some contaminated vacant lots, etc., stuff that I just let go back and wrote off the expense.

Sure, you are angry and feel taken…Perhaps you were too interested in “getting something for nothing” to hear the caveat about it takes time, effort and money.

Start small…go to a sale and spend a small amount. See what happens. I get 18 percent interest on those that redeem. Under the bankers rule of 72, my money doubles, just from interest alone, every 4 years.

It really is worthwhile…but takes more than an angry post.

Good Luck,

=====>bill

import · June 28, 2003, 9:10pm

Re: Tax Sale Properties-SCAM - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on June 28, 2003 at 21:10:47:

Luke: Actually, compared to some other types of rei, tax sales are pretty straightforward. I had never bought any property in my life when I bought my first tax sale property 3 years ago in CA. I sold it for twice what I bought it for. Same with the second one. And I plan to at least double my money on the third (putting it on the market this summer). I didn’t buy John Beck’s course because I learned about tax sales on line and had the help of some message boards. But it certainly would have been worth the money given what I made.

I don’t like the term “pennies on the dollar.” Sounds a lot different than 50% below market value. So that part of the hype may be a little over the top.

You are right. It takes money to buy tax sale properties. I bought my first one with 3 (count 'em 3) credit cards. Does the John Beck ad actually say that you can buy without any money? I would find that hard to believe.

I think you might be wrong about how many naive people there are out there. Lots of people that are looking to get rich quick, that’s true. Lots of people that don’t want to work hard. Lots of people that want someone to hand them formula for wealth. But John Beck’s course is hardly a rip-off if it suggests that you can make money buying tax sale properties. You can. I did.

Sincerely, Kristine

import · June 28, 2003, 7:05pm

My view. - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on June 28, 2003 at 19:05:18:

Luke Ache-----------------

If you are referring to the infomercial for John Beck’s “Free and Clear” program, I agree that it tends to be very oriented toward the positive and not about the difficulties.

However, I have talked personally to John Beck, who I know and consider a friend. He told me about his procedure for researching the properties that he has pictures for on the infomercial. It is legitimate.

I know that he has been buying properties at tax sales for many years.

The strange thing is that you are getting upset about something about which you seem to know nothing. And then you are making comments which are way off the mark. All without checking out whether the commercial is accurate or not. Your post is, in my opinion, worthless for informing other people about the situation. You appear to know nothing about what you are talking. Why do you spout off like this?

I personally have bought tax certificates for less than $1000 each and I will get deeds for the houses. The houses are worth over $15K.

A couple of weeks ago I bought a couple of houses for less than $2500 total price at a tax resale in the state of OK. Looking at the www.realtor.com for that town, it looks as though those houses are both worth over $15K each.

So, before you start getting emotional and making statement with no reality behind them, I’d suggest you learn something about what you are writing. In my opinion, and my experience, you are flat out wrong. Why do you post nonsense?

Good Investing**************Ron Starr****************

import · June 28, 2003, 6:23pm

Re: Tax Sale Properties-SCAM - Posted by Brent Leach

Posted by Brent Leach on June 28, 2003 at 18:23:59:

Luke,

I know people who get properties at these tax sales for dirt cheap and turn around and sale them for a nice profit. You need to do some research and see how your state is setup on these sales.

If you are referring to John Beck I have read his course, however I can get most of the same information online with a bit of research.

My business partner has come across some really good deals down in Florida at tax sales. I don’t know about penny on the dollar. But he sure makes alot of profits on the ones he picks up. Remember, you make your profit when you buy the property.

Regards,

Brent Leach

import · June 29, 2003, 11:54am

Re: Tax Sale Properties-SCAM - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on June 29, 2003 at 11:54:54:

Josephine---------------

Thanks for the reference. I’d read that a long time ago and forgot about it. It was a pleasure to reread it.

I saw a girl of about 12 or 13 years old bid on an buy a vacant lot on the Santa Cruz CA County tax sale a few years ago. Her mother encouraged her. I don’t know if it was a good buy or not. A lot of those properties in the Santa Cruz tax sales are not good properties.

Good InvestingRon Starr**

import · June 28, 2003, 8:34pm

Tax Sale Properties- SCAM - Posted by Luke Ache

Posted by Luke Ache on June 28, 2003 at 20:34:39:

Non-Sense? Why dont you have your honest “friend” explain all the legal implications of acquiring tax free properties and what it really entails? I bet 99% of the people who buy that course dont even understand that there is a bidding process involved, and sometimes you are going against 300 people!!! Oops, he forgot to mention that you have to have money down in order to bid and also, you have to do a lot of research on the properties you will be bidding on, your “friend” seems to deliberately overlook all these very “unimportant” aspects of the process, if you ever found any tax sale properties that had $150 dollars delinquent in taxes…or $50 dollars like the “bullcr*pmercial” claims…let me know and I will but 100 of these homes…definitely a SCAM

import · June 28, 2003, 8:21pm

Tax Sale Properties- SCAM - Posted by Luke Ache

Posted by Luke Ache on June 28, 2003 at 20:21:08:

Non-Sense? Why dont you have your honest “friend” explain all the legal implications of acquiring tax free properties and what it really entails? I bet 99% of the people who buy that course dont even understand that there is a bidding process involved, and sometimes you are going against 300 people!!! Oops, he forgot to mention that you have to have money down in order to bid and also, you have to do a lot of research on the properties you will be bidding on, your “friend” seems to deliberately overlook all these very “unimportant” aspects of the process, if you ever found any tax sale properties that had $150 dollars delinquent in taxes…or $50 dollars like the “bullcr*pmercial” claims…let me know and I will but 100 of these homes…definitely a SCAM

import · June 28, 2003, 6:27pm

Re: Tax Sale Properties-SCAM - Posted by Brent Leach

Posted by Brent Leach on June 28, 2003 at 18:27:05:

Luke,

This business does take research. I forgot to mention in my previous post that every state is setup differently on how tax sales are handled. But every state has some form of them.

import · June 29, 2003, 8:22am

Re: the details - Posted by rm

Posted by rm on June 29, 2003 at 08:22:30:

Show me one piece of advertising that gives all the details.

Nobody does this.

Nobody can.

Advertising exists to sell products.

Hopefully, the products deliver what’s promised.

There is no marketing anywhere that meets your standards.

Go rant about something that can be changed.

import · June 28, 2003, 10:52pm

Re: Tax Sale Properties- SCAM - Posted by Keith hutson

Posted by Keith hutson on June 28, 2003 at 22:52:42:

Luke, after reading your posts I just have to comment here. John Beck’s course is good. Yeah, maybe he is more on the positive side. You say that he doesn’t mention that there are a lot of people bidding etc. That may be true in some markets, but in others there are only a few people who show up.

I know the clerk of the court here in Duval county Florida (Jacksonville). We had dinner last night and he told me that sometimes there are a good number, other times not for tax and foreclosure auctions. Just depends as there are sales everyday at the Duval county courthouse.

Also, I understand from others that Beck’s course tells you how to do it. Some of the taxes due are minimal, othere very high. One can decide if they can afford to buy or not. Some of the taxes are very low so just about anybody can buy, some are extremely high. There is a certificate for everyone.

You are too sceptical. Investigate these courses. By the way, you don’t find too many of these courses staying on tv very long if they are not legitimate. Believe me, there are too many people with a watchful eye.

Also, there are not any scam artists promoted here at this site and these investors are for real. They know what they are talking about, they do it. Please take your frustration out somewhere else.

KHutson

import · June 28, 2003, 9:30pm

Re: Tax Sale Properties- SCAM - Posted by Brent Leach

Posted by Brent Leach on June 28, 2003 at 21:30:23:

Luke,

This is exactly what seperates the winners from the losers. You fitting in the later. Of course some work and research is involved. And even that is a piece of cake once you have done it several times and know what to EXACTLY look for.

While you are on the boards upset about your failure or upset about the success of other people. People like Mr. Starr and myself are out doing deals. Not all of these Tax Sales hasve auctions. Sometimes you can buy " over the counter" as they call it.

As I said before, you really need to look into this and get the facts together. Or, you can keep your job flipping burgers ( if you want to call that work. )

Regards,

Brent Leach

import · June 28, 2003, 8:54pm

You might consider anger management - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on June 28, 2003 at 20:54:54:

Luke Ache --------------

You might want to consider getting some anger management classes or counseling to help you with your unexpressed internal rage.

Every state has a different procedure for collecting delinquent taxes. And you are correct, in some counties there are a lot of people who show up to bid for properties or tax liens.

However, those two houses I bought for less than $2,500 were at a tax resale auction in OK state and think nobody else bid against me. Granted they are in poorer areas of town, but still when I bought them for less than ten cents on the dollar, that is a good buy in my view.

The houses that John Beck shows the photos of were bought with tax liens. When tax liens are not sold at the initial auction often one can buy them over the counter. This allows one to do research on the properties and title before buying the certificates. So one concentrate upon the ones which are most promising. There may be little or no competition for those tax liens, so you buy them cheap.

Oh I did buy a different house for $207 at a tax resale a couple of weeks ago. But that property is not very good, probably not worth more than maybe $2K. We’ll find out when I go to resell it. Still, I may have bought it for about ten cents on the dollar. That seems good enough to me.

It appears to me that you have been to one or two sales and from that you conclude that all sales are similar. Not true. Different counties, different results. Sometimes there is lots of competition, sometimes not. Even in the same county it can vary. At the Oklahoma County tax resale this year there were about 250 people at the beginning of the first day of the sale. At the beginning of the second day there were about 12 people. I picked up a couple of decent lots there for the minimum bid, no competition. I bought a bunch of lots in some other counties, some of them at the minimum bid. In some counties there was competition. As I say, it varies from time to time and county to county.

This I will say. I have bought enough tax sales bargains to continue to buy this way. Although I may stop after this year, since I have enough rental houses to live comfortably without having to buy more.

So, if you are a serious investor, you might want to explore further the prospects of making good buys at tax sales. I’d recommend that you order the John Beck “Free and Clear” educational materials. They are really low priced for the wealth of information in them. The are a bargain, in my cheapskate vision. And, if you buy them from John Beck directly you can get your money back if you are not satisfied: www.johnbeck.net website

And you might want to understand why you feel you have to warn other people about a “scam” which is not a scam. Look in your heart and see why you really have so much anger inside. Sure, the infomercial people are doing a selling job. But in this case, what they are selling is actually a great bargain for the people who buy it, in my opinion.

Good Investing*Ron Starr

import · June 29, 2003, 12:48am

Re: Tax Sale Properties- SCAM - Posted by Luke Ache

Posted by Luke Ache on June 29, 2003 at 24:48:27:

Keith and all:

I just signed up for my anger management class (LOL), back to the subject, if some smart man wants to fool people and mislead people by seling these “courses”, I mean, in a society where burgers come with warning labels, it would not be very hard for him to find many “followers”, but as a consumers advocate, I have to admit that the infomercial that I watched today is very misleading, over-inflated advertisement that gives naive people the idea that tax sales properties are easy to buy and a very simple process, I am sorry but thats not true. Also, I would like to point out that people just dont stop paying property taxes simply because they decide to do so “out of the blue”. We must understand that a lot of these properties arent good for anything i.e: lots, many of the lots that go for sale as tax sale properties are actually undevelopable driveways (It doesnt take a genius to realize why property taxes arent being paid???) Anyways, I will start looking for my first burned down crack house infested with toxic mold for “pennies on the dollars” LOL…happy investments!

Luke

import · June 29, 2003, 12:07am

Re: Tax Sale Properties- SCAM - Posted by Luke Ache

Posted by Luke Ache on June 29, 2003 at 24:07:12:

Keith and all:

I just signed up for my anger management class (LOL), back to the subject, if some smart man wants to fool people and mislead people by seling these “courses”, I mean, in a society where burgers come with warning labels, it would not be very hard for him to find many “followers”, but as a consumers advocate, I have to admit that the infomercial that I watched today is very misleading, over-inflated advertisement that gives naive people the idea that tax sales properties are easy to buy and a very simple process, I am sorry but thats not true. Also, I would like to point out that people just dont stop paying property taxes simply because they decide to do so “out of the blue”. We must understand that a lot of these properties arent good for anything i.e: lots, many of the lots that go for sale as tax sale properties are actually undevelopable driveways (It doesnt take a genius to realize why property taxes arent being paid???) Anyways, I will start looking for my first burned down crack house infested with toxic mold for “pennies on the dollars” LOL…happy investments!

Luke

import · June 29, 2003, 12:07am

Re: Tax Sale Properties- SCAM - Posted by Tristen

Posted by Tristen on June 29, 2003 at 24:07:18:

I couldn’t agree with you more Brent!

import · June 28, 2003, 11:06pm

Re: You might consider anger management - Posted by keith hutson

Posted by keith hutson on June 28, 2003 at 23:06:48:

I think a “scam” would be classified as one who intentionally misrepresents something, such as a course on tv. Further the scam would be representative of one who refuses to return your money without harsh action.

I have heard people bash Carlton Sheets and while the scope of his course is mostly buying under value or buying, holding for rental purposes, enjoying appreciation, most of us can say (those of us who have purchased his courses)have learned a lot from him. He is responsible for many people here at creonline becoming millionaires, either by following his course of at least starting the fire!

If you are not investing learn as much as you can and stop looking for faults in these courses and direct that energy into a positive direction, like learning more or using your time to research and make deals.

KHutson