Posted by Chris on April 25, 2002 at 17:49:20:
Hello JohnBoy:
Now there’s the guy I “know and love”!
Will check out your recommendations, too. I’ve actually been reading posts here for a while, but just decided to write this week as I said. I’m looking forward to hearing back from Jan on what I wrote about fixers (my still-favorite part of real estate, as I wrote to Ron). Thanks, Chris
Thank you for your thoughts - Posted by Chris
Posted by Chris on April 25, 2002 at 12:42:20:
Hello JohnBoy:
Appreciated your thoughts in response to mine. I’ll be happy to post anything I have to say, here, on the forum. Writing back and forth, whether by email or postings, has been valuable to me because I’m learning from it.
As I told you and Jeanne, I have nothing to sell here or solicit anyone for since I’m here to learn–not so much about how to invest in real estate (though I know how much I don’t know after all these years). My interest is in the process of how people learn, as I discussed with Ron, and what they’re doing to get the info they need to succeed (how’s it working for them?, as Dr Phil would say). I value the opinions expressed here or I wouldn’t waste my time.
Here’s what I’m seeing so far–and it’s early for me to form any opinions: I agree no course or coaching helps someone who is lazy and wants to get rich quick. My experience has been that even when the student of real estate pays big bucks for courses, etc, many of them DO nothing. I’ve never understood that. In reading questions on the forum, I find them to be so general–when that information is in the courses they say they already have. Are they reading them, are they doing anything? I haven’t seen many postings on what they’re DOing.
When the questions are about a specific property or deal, I’m trying to learn how anyone can offer a solution that will actually result in a deal without the “mentor/poster” having any of the important information that makes or breaks the deal. I could write “what you should do” all day long to that person, but we’d both still be guessing what the real situation is with the seller, financing, etc. And there’s no way my “brilliance” would be of any help to them. That’s why I’m still here trying to figure out if it works for anyone or if they’re stroking themselves.
It’s easy for students to say courses/coaching are worthless, but my original, rather critical, question to myself was “how valuable is free, nebulous sp? advice from self-proclaimed experts”. Let’s say, for the sake of discussion, that you, Ron and I are experts and someone asks what offer should they make on a property. I propose it’s impossible for us to say. If they ask how to work with realtors (a big hurdle), how do any of us give concrete advice that results in making money in a posted message? Do the “posters” believe they can get free help here and make money? Does that happen, and how often? I know the results of course work and coaching from years in the business (and they are not wonderful), and I’m interested in the process and results from another venue. I still have a lot of questions!
What I did find valuable and productive, as I told Jeanne, was the info on whose course has good information and why, whose company gives crappy customer service, who’s a real ripoff in the way they do business, what the perception of the courses and coaching is out in the real world, etc. I think this is an extremely good way to even the playing field against the hype in this business. Please share your thoughts. And thank you, Chris
Re: Thank you for your thoughts - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in no CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in no CA) on April 25, 2002 at 17:24:35:
Chris----------------
Hi again. I agree with JohnBoy, people will ask a question, we ask for details and some give it and some don’t. It amazes me how often there is not response. Maybe they learned something else on their own which make them realize that it was not a good deal for them and they didn’t bother to come back and tell us.
I think probably the best help is in response to very specific questions such as how to get rid of animal smell, what to ask prospect renters, and so on. There can be some other guidance given, and we try.
I sometimes think that other people are “lurking” around reading the posts and they may learn something. So, I try to make my answers as clear as I can.
I wonder if the association of real estate editors could help you understand education of real estate investing? I think Bob Bruss belongs to it.
Well, got to go.
Good Investing and Good PostingRon Starr****
Re: Thank you for your thoughts - Posted by JohnBoy
Posted by JohnBoy on April 25, 2002 at 14:45:37:
Chris,
There are seven news groups on this site. The value you see talking about courses being any good and what not, is what the main purpose of this news group we’re posting on is for. But there are many times when new people come here and post more specific questions on this news group and a lot of them go unanswered because most of the experienced investors on this site don’t visit this news group that often.
If you go over to the MAIN news group you will find a lot more “meat” being given by the more experienced investors. Even on the main news group there will be a lot of new investors asking basic questions looking for answers on how to do the deal they think they have found. You will see a lot of, “Help! Is this a deal?” questions being posted. Many of them don’t give near enough information as to whether they have a deal or not or any information as to why the seller is selling or what the seller’s NEEDS are. Naturally no one can answer those types of basic questions. That is why we usually follow up by asking them to provide us with more specific details in order to answer their questions. Some will follow up and provide the information we ask for, while some we will never hear back from. But anything we don’t know that we need to know, we ask the poster to provide us with that information if they want answers. If you go over to the main news group and start reading through the posts you will see what I’m referring to. THIS news group here that we are posting on offers the LEAST amount of real world information pertaining to doing actual deals. This news group is for the purpose of asking questions about the gurus that sell courses.
If you want some real world answers with some “meat” to it, then visit the main news group for better information pertaining to real estate investing in general.
If you want some “meat” about financing deals then visit the financing news group board. If you want more “meat” about investing in commercial real estate then visit the commercial real estate news group. The same for investing in mobile homes, paper, or legal questions. There are seven news groups here on this site that relates to more specific topics on different types of investing.
In fact, there was a post recently made on the financing board on this site. The poster is asking how to finance buying a mobile home park. But they don’t give any details about the park or the deal. They only tell us how much they can buy it for, what the seller will carry and what they need to come up with for a down payment. Nothing else! But they want to know how to get the financing. I followed by asking for more specific information before being able to begin to offer any suggestions. Whether they follow up by providing the information I asked for or not remains to be seen. You can go over to the financing board and read the post yourself to get an idea on what I’m talking about. After you spend some time here reading through the other news groups you will see a big difference from what you have noticed from this board.
If you scroll to the top of this board look on the left. Where it says INTERACTION, under that is the links to each of the different news groups on this site.
Also, don’t forget to search the archives on any specific subject you are interested in. Keep in mind that each news group has its own separate archives. So when you search on something make sure you are searching the proper news group that pertains to the subject you are searching.
For example if you went to the main news group and typed “lease option” in the search function, you will probably get thousands of posts that have been made on the subject over that past 5 years on this site. You would be able to find so much information on doing a L/O deal that anything you could find in a course (other than the contracts) is probably already sitting in the posts somewhere in the archives.
Since you have just recently found this site it will take you a little time to sift through everything here. But you’ll see a much clearer picture on how things are here once you get a chance to sift through everything.
So WELCOME and stick around.
Re: Thank you for your thoughts - Posted by Chris
Posted by Chris on April 25, 2002 at 18:00:07:
Hello Ron:
Thanks for writing–you and Johnboy have a good handle on what’s happening here, as far as I can see so far. You’ve both given helpful advice and good, practical advice in your postings. I know people benefit from it.
By the way, I miss California! So talking to you is refreshing!!! There are such unbelievably good prices here in Missouri, and the people are the nicest in the world. But you know I miss the ocean and the mountains.
Will keep in touch. Chris