The SECRET Of Napoleon Hill REVEALED! - Posted by Nimesh Patel

Re: Much Ado About Nothing (was …Napoleon Hill…) - Posted by John Sheridan

Posted by John Sheridan on March 28, 2006 at 05:23:11:

W.F. wrote:
>>I am glad young people like Bill Gates didn’t get the chance to read this post, otherwise he would have stayed in school, got himself a high-tech job, settled for a million dollar net-wealth and we can’t use the computers the way we are now.

People like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc. love what they do so much that they would do it anyway even if there were much less money in it. The fact that they keep working even after they have accumulated so much wealth proves this. I don’t know how much money George Lucas made but he certainly didn’t get started for the money. He did what he did because he loved it.

Saying “you won’t become a billionaire” is the same as saying “you aren’t going to win the lottery”. And that is good advice for most people. If you plan your life around winning the lottery 12 years from now, most likely you will be very disappointed.

Re: Much Ado About Nothing (was …Napoleon Hill…) - Posted by Skip

Posted by Skip on March 27, 2006 at 20:56:29:

Bill Gates is not a valid example since most people will never accomplish anything close to what he did – no matter what books they read. The same goes for George Lucas.

Re: Argue your limitations… - Posted by John Sheridan

Posted by John Sheridan on March 28, 2006 at 17:28:54:

Thanks John I think I understand your position better now. I was a little puzzled by your original post which seemed out of character for you in some ways. Now I see that you are not espousing “pie in the sky” like some do.

You said: “There’s no magic, but there are inner elements that are absolutely essential to success.”

And I have no argument with that. That is equivalent to the “contrapositive” statement I made in my original post. What I do take issue with is the converse, namely that if you have those characteristics then you are automatically guaranteed to have big success. I define “big success” as getting wealthy quickly, like multi-millions in a few years, or high wealth like over $100 million. That kind of success requires all of the aforementioned “inner elements”, plus a hefty chunk of good luck.

Re: Much Ado About Nothing (was …Napoleon Hill…) - Posted by RogerTX

Posted by RogerTX on March 29, 2006 at 17:55:06:

You are correct. Being smart is not everything.

I’m trying to avoid a crash and burn right now. Had I met my mentor first I’d have never done what I did and I’d be much better off. Now I’m into his real estate/network marketing business and it makes 6 times what the monthly costs are. It’s already doing better than the houses I bought. Getting in at the beginning of any startup has its advantages.

No but maybe they bleep - Posted by John Sheridan

Posted by John Sheridan on March 28, 2006 at 19:35:26:

I just spent a little time researching this “What the bleep do we know” thing. I have an advanced degree in Physics and it really pains me to see pseudo-scientific crap like this getting so much attention.

It reminds me of Asimov’s “Foundation” series. Asimov knew a lot about history and he used it in his novels. In this sci-fi series, the Galactic Empire is falling. One of the symptoms of the fall was the replacement of real science with pseudo-science and superstitious nonsense. Just like what is happening today. It makes one think.

Re: Argue your limitations… - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on March 28, 2006 at 20:44:46:

Sometimes I hate to review or even pause when I am posting. Some people post their fourth draft after careful review and spellchecking, etc. I just type it out and run off to an appointment or whatever. It’s interesting because even though I don’t plan on things not being clear on some posts like that one I kind of sense it might not be clear or reflect exactly what I meant.

I should have chosen specific examples instead of pointing to someone like Gates that I know little about. So, in an effort to further clarify, here are a couple examples that stand out to me.

I met an investor at a conference over 20 years ago. He was a real nice guy, had a good sense of humor, etc. so we kept in touch through the years and would go to lunch a lot, etc. I wondered and wondered why he was all theory and no results. I’ll call him Jim.

In all the time I knew him I don’t know of a property he ever bought and I don’t know of a home study course he didn’t. As an agent, he’s only done a few deals. It never made a lot of sense, but from time to time he would drop clues. Eventually I got to know the deeper details. As a young man and clear through his school years his contractor dad was struggling. The family home was in foreclosure something like 13 times. His parents stayed together, but apparently his mother was very brutal and critical of his dad.

It left him with a deep insecurity that no amount of education could cure. The deep fear of losing everything left him paralyzed as far as taking anything resembling a risk - like buying a property. To my knowledge, in his 50’s he is still a “Non-investor” and living in his parents condo. At times he has worked as a consultant for some of the coaching programs and was even going to go out on the speaking circuit at one point. I got to know some of the deeper details after a Psychologist he respected called him a “flat tire” in a group meeting. For a moment his illusion was shattered.

Another investor I met at the same conference that I’ll call Dave. At the time he was bright, energetic and someone I thought would go far. I came to find out he was living in the basement of a church. I remember him having probably the nicest business card I have ever seen. Over twenty years later he still has not bought any properties and washes windows for a living. Yet not a year goes by without him emailing or calling to tell me about his latest real estate project. I think the only property he has ever bought was a half interest in a timeshare with a very short term girlfriend. When I came to find out the deeper details of his life, there are some very wierd things with his mother, great anger and I’ve never heard him speak a word about his father. Still single, still broke and renting a room with other room mates.

I contrast those two with another investor named Adam. He had half the intelligence of either of these two. Less than half the personal skills. Yet, I remember him being late for a meeting one day because he stopped to buy a Motel he saw as he was driving to the meeting. There was not a question in his mind he could buy property. Not a hesitation. No fear of failure, where the other two were frozen with fear.

Most of what people believe equals success would fall on the scale of the two least successful ones. Most people would be puzzled as to their lack of success and startled at the success of the third investor.

Now that’s in business. In other areas I have seen where people’s fears and limiting beliefs rule their relationships, families, health and other areas of their lives. Over and over I have seen as they have discovered that for themselves and then dealt with it and moved on to greater success in their marriage, with their kids or whatever.

I believe there is great power in affirmations and they are a good thing. I don’t argue with the post that was addressing that. I’ve just come to see over and over that underlying the positive self talk there can be a much louder voice shouting it down. Someone can say a positive affirmation hundreds, even thousands of times and it might not outweigh the negative self talk and beliefs deep inside. These inner beliefs and fears also cause people to sabotage opportunities or even the “good luck” that comes their ways.

There are many examples in the world of sales. There is a much easier set of criteria to weigh and measure. You have the scenario of the “$15,000 per year salesman”. People have a comfort zone and to a large extent they earn what they believe they should. When a salesman starts out having a good year and approaches the high point of their comfort zone, they usually slack off or something happens to slow them down that basically keeps them at “their number”. The reverse tends to be true. If they start out bad they tend to catch up at the end. There is a comfort zone for each of us. There is an income level which we don’t fall below and a level we don’t rise above. Changing the beliefs about or that drive those numbers has more power than greater opportunity, sales tools, education, etc.

They’ve also experimented with salesmen and their territories. They find that they can take half the territory away from one salesman and give it to another. Both end up at the end with the same income as before. We must be true to those inner beliefs. It may not sound logical, but that’s not how they operate. Inside of us those inner beliefs are true. They are absolute and on the outside we may not even be aware of what they are.

It may just not translate well to paper or at least not for me, but in a training room it becomes very clear. It’s something easier demonstrated than explained.

Re: Much Ado About Nothing (was …Napoleon Hill…) - Posted by Larry (OK)

Posted by Larry (OK) on March 30, 2006 at 23:44:42:

“My intent is to be helpful, but sometimes I wonder if it is worth it.”

You presume your limited beliefs in the form of “Purely logical and scientific reason” are truly helpful. They are NOT.

Did you even read Terry Vaughan’s first reply to this thread? The co-owner of this website has pointed people to some incredibly helpful advice, that flies in the face of your posts. Exactly opposite of your limited intellect!

And you disagree with it?

No. You are not a person that understands reality. You are not a helpful unfluence. Open your mind, for the last time.

Re: Much Ado About Nothing (was …Napoleon Hill…) - Posted by John Sheridan

Posted by John Sheridan on March 30, 2006 at 07:40:24:

RogerTX wrote: “You are correct. Being smart is not everything.”

Thank you Roger you have no idea how refreshing that is after having to deal with those trollish replies I have had here. I have posted my ideas in other investment forums without that kind of negative response. I guess there must be something about real estate investing that attracts cantankerous personalities - I don’t mean that all of you are that way, but some clearly are. My intent is to be helpful, but sometimes I wonder if it is worth it.

John Behle - excellent… - Posted by Chris in FL

Posted by Chris in FL on March 29, 2006 at 12:12:07:

John Sheridan, you strike me as someone with way too much education and way too little success. You should host a website “pompous gab; elite people arguing their views”, and not be posting here! If you diverted the energy you spend arguing into pursuing success, you would have Gates-like success already.
All posts by John Behle were excellent, and right on target! Speaking from personal experience, and coming from dirt-poor, success is nearly impossible until you get yourself right on the inside first (Millionaire Mind Intensive course by T. Harv Eker is an excellent free tool for this, “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” by Robert Kiyosaki is required reading, and John Behle, while I haven’t studied him, sounds great).
I have always been a saver, but could never really get ahead in life (lived very small). When I finally started working on the inside, instead of the outside, and when I finally started to build small successes, and realize that I could succeed, everything changed. I made a decision that I would do whatever it takes, within ethical guidelines, to be a millionaire. Once I became convinced of this, I began to successfully make money in RE. I am 100% convinced that, no matter what vehicle, I would find a way to success once I knew it was possible. A poor person’s mentality is what makes and keeps them poor, and risk-aversion (fear) is a HUGE part of that. You can’t have success without some measure of risk. Once I became educated (RE), and took educated risks, there was no stopping me from success. You have to have some intelligence, but nothing excessive; you have to have definite determination and persistence; and you have to fix your inner-game to where you want and attract success, instead of pushing it away. Outside of that, everything else needed for success, in any amount and in any field, you can learn from others. In 8 years I went from zero net-worth to $750K, and will easily be a millionaire before age 40, and have over $10 million net worth by age 60 (and probably a lot sooner). I will give at least a $1 million lump-sum to at least two charitable causes before I leave this world, and, had I worked on me more and sooner, just exactly as John B. described, I would have come a lot further a lot faster. The world is my oyster, and, newbies, it can be yours too (just don’t let John Sheridan steal your dreams)!!!

Re: Argue your limitations… - Posted by Michael

Posted by Michael on March 29, 2006 at 24:06:28:

John,

Aren’t you saying in a nutshell, that fear is the outward manifestation of poor self-esteem?

Have you read Nathaniel Branden’s work? I believe he is the originator of the whole self-esteem movement, although he does not espouse phony feel good methodologies. He believes true self-esteem is cultivated from personal responsibility and achievement.

Re: Much Ado About Nothing (was …Napoleon Hill…) - Posted by John Sheridan

Posted by John Sheridan on March 31, 2006 at 07:48:32:

OK this is going to be my last entry in this thread, because I’m really getting sick and tired of this.

Larry, I am NOT against what Terry Vaughn posted, as you would know if you actually took the time to READ and UNDERSTAND what I posted. Specifically, read my recent reply to Chris, not the one you trolled but the other one. And also my reply to Michael, “Dual Interpretations”.

The fact is, sometimes people read books like that and they get the wrong idea. They think they are going to be the next Bill Gates, or they think they are going to become financially independent in 2 or 3 years. That’s what is dangerous.

I HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN. A while back a friend of mine had a son who read a few of those books and thought he was going to make mega-millions. He resulting crash and burn was a big disaster for his whole family.

Yes you can succeed, but you need to be REALISTIC IN YOUR EXPECTATIONS. One of the things I like about this forum is that it helps people to do just that.

Napoleon Hill can be OK if you interpret it correctly (again, see “Dual Interpretations”) but I think it’s much more worthwhile to read books like Stanley’s “Millionaire Next Door” and Clason’s “Richest Man in Babylon”. Those give real concrete advice on how to succeed, and set realistic expectations too.

OK now in case you missed it, here it is one more time - go back and READ those two posts I mentioned. READ them, don’t just SKIM them as I believe you have been doing.

And now I am done with this thread, in fact I think I am done with this forum at least for a while anyway. If there are any newbies reading this, I wish you all the best and I want you to know that you CAN succeed, but you have to do things RATIONALLY. Don’t go looking for pie in the sky. You won’t find it, unless you are, well, very lucky.

Take care, and best wishes to all of you.

----“John Sheridan”-----

Re: Much Ado About Nothing (was …Napoleon Hill…) - Posted by RogerTX

Posted by RogerTX on March 30, 2006 at 23:54:48:

I hope you weren’t replying to me. I didn’t write “My intent…”

Re: Much Ado About Nothing (was …Napoleon Hill…) - Posted by RogerTX

Posted by RogerTX on March 30, 2006 at 17:17:05:

It is always worth doing the right thing. It may not feel like it but it is. I sort of like people dumping on my posts. It lets me look at my ideas through other peoples eyes. It’s also sometimes hard to do in print because few of us are professional writers. I’m certainly not. If they didn’t get it from what I wrote it’s quite likely I did a less than best job of presentation.

For example, I spent 30 yrs dumping on network marketing until I understood it. Donald Trump recommends it. Warren Buffet spent $1.5 billion on one last year. The big boys are involved because they knew something I didn’t. Now that I’ve found one that’s real estate related I’m hooked.

Look before you leap… - Posted by John Sheridan

Posted by John Sheridan on March 29, 2006 at 13:28:12:

…and don’t leap to hasty conclusions.

Regarding John Behle and his posts, obviously you haven’t read my other post in this thread, “Dual Interpretations”.

As to my “lack of success”, I have been an investor for over 25 years - not in RE but in the financial markets. I’d rather not get into a “mine is bigger than yours” argument, but I will just say that you still have some distance to go yet before your net worth catches up to mine.

I’d be the last person to discourage newbies to try to attain success. If that’s what you got out of my posts, then I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Re: Argue your limitations… - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on March 29, 2006 at 11:08:47:

I haven’t heard of Branden, but I would somewhat agree with his statement. It goes beyond that though. Somewhat can have good self esteem and still have “irrational fears”. A fear may just be based on risk but it can also be based on beliefs that are not necessarily logical. To fear sky diving might be somewhat rational, there are some risks, but most fear is based on exaggerated risks. I remember when I went years ago there was a statistic of more people being killed in high school football than sky diving.

An irrational fear may be something highly exaggerated or even totally off the scale. Someone that fears sky diving because their grandfather’s shute was shot up in WWII might be exaggerated. But, a fear like that has little to do with self image.

The irrational fears are usually deeper and much of the time unknown to the person?s conscious mind. They Psychologist that first taught me about eliminating ?Self Defeating Behaviors? close to thirty years ago used an example that has always stood out. It was a woman he was counseling. To make a long story short she had a weight problem from eating a whole chocolate cake each day. It?s fascinating the steps and rationalizations she went through, but another discussion. What the final result was is that under hypno-therapy what Dr Chamberlain refers to as a ?mythical fear? came out. She said she knew she was a beautiful woman and was trying to make herself less desirable because of the fear of being taken advantage of (to put it mildly).

Now, the statistics don?t bear that out and rational analysis might see that as an un-justified fear. But, to our sub-conscious minds it is real. I would wager highly that further therapy would find the incident or incidents where that fear started. He probably knew, but did not share that part with the class. And over the years, I have seen hundreds and hundreds of very similar cases.

So, when it comes to finances, business, etc. The fear of one of the wanna be investors I mentioned in the other post was a fear of ?losing it all.? That seems irrational to us to look at. How can never having anything be any better than losing it all? How can never having a relationship or getting married in his case be better than his extreme fear of losing a relationship or getting into a bad one? You could argue that the fear becomes real because of his not trying. It would be hard for a failure to be much worse than the life he had doomed himself to by not trying. The risk of buying a property and then possibly losing it doesn?t result in a much worse state than never trying.

I think Steven Covey is someone with a very good grasp of all this. He made some statements years ago that have always stood out to me. He said ?un-expressed emotions never die, they just manifest themselves in uglier and uglier ways?. And that ?if you try to strangle and emotion it struggles for life. If you let it live, it dies in the birth process?. He went on to say that behaviors are driven from these emotions. His statement was ?All sin is outward manifestation of inner turmoil?. So take out the word sin since that particular statement was in a church setting. Consider it the aberrant behavior that gets in the way of success and happiness. The things we do to mess up in life.

The behavior that is damaging, self defeating and gets in the way of success usually has inner roots. Most of the time that is from traumatic events. Sometimes from a series or pattern of small events. Sometimes just from a messed up belief system. Like people who are taught in the home or some kind of religious setting that ?money is the root of all evil? when the true statement was ?the love of money is the root of all evil? which is quite different.

So, when someone has a belief system they are fighting against at the very least it makes the job difficult, long and tedious. In more cases, the belief system wins. Some people without wealth are taught that they are more humble and righteous. Some are taught that rich people do bad things or in the long run are un-happy. I have seen so many people struggle against those kind of inner beliefs in the business world.

A good definition of FEAR is ?False Evidence Appearing Real.? So many times fear is based on erroneous or irrational beliefs. Deeply entrenched inner beliefs don?t just go away from someone ?changing their mind?, reading a book or even having a discussion or realization of the bizarre nature of the beliefs.

Then, it goes farther. We have what is called our ?Reticular Activating System?. We tend to attract to us things that justify our beliefs. We see only those things that justify our beliefs. On a subconscious level, we work to prove the beliefs. The powerful subconscious or unconscious mind has the task of doing all it can to make our beliefs real. It doesn?t weigh or analyze them, it?s just a dog fetching a stick. Doesn?t matter if it is dynamite.

That?s why outside programming working against the deeper inner programming is such a difficult battle. A thousand positive affirmations may have little impact where one planted direct into the subconscious can make a powerful shift. Yet, it might have taken a thousand negative affirmations to help create those beliefs and over time positive affirmations can make a difference. A long time.

But turn this inner power to the right course or cause and the result can be tremendous success.

I find that to be the common denominator for success. Whether in athletics or in finances. Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe it can achieve. If someone truly has the inner belief of their success it will be hard to stop them. If they believe inside that they can?t, all the external influences in the world may do little to help them. I?ve found that a lot with employees. I?ve been a rescuer at times and usually see someone?s potential better than they do. I?ve been amazed when someone is presented with all the opportunity in the world and scrambles to blow it up. It?s the lifeguard syndrome. They learned to keep their distance and toss people a ring because lifeguards were getting killed by the thrashing people they tried to save. And that may be a good visual of how we work sometimes. Thrashing around and actually fighting against the influences and people trying to help us.

People just repeat their cycles of drama unless there is serious intervention. We spend out lives proving the ?truth? of those inner beliefs and creating a world around us that justifies it. Change the beliefs - change our world.

Re: Much Ado About Nothing (was …Napoleon Hill…) - Posted by Adam-MI

Posted by Adam-MI on March 31, 2006 at 08:37:53:

John,
Thanks for the informative posts. I, for one, think you have provided some well thought out insight, and are an asset to this forum. I understand your frustration from the negative feedback you have gotten, but at least some of us do appreciate the time and effort you have put in. Thanks again, and don’t stay away too long.

Re: Not your, Roger - Posted by Larry(OK)

Posted by Larry(OK) on March 31, 2006 at 24:11:02:

Wrong reply line. Not you Roger. You at least have an open mind.

Cheers

Re: Look before you leap… - Posted by Chris in FL

Posted by Chris in FL on March 29, 2006 at 15:15:52:

John, I overlooked the obvious reason for your difference in opinion from, likley, anyone else on this website. You invest in financial markets. Assuming you mean largely stocks, I can see where you might associate luck with success (though I am sure you will refute that). In R.E., you make your own success, and luck plays a very small role (almost a non-factor).
I readily admit that my success in stocks is lackluster, hence the reason my dollars are largely in R.E. Amazingly, very few people stand above the crowd in stock market investing, but many do in Real Estate. I consistently get returns on Real Estate Investments, over time, that beat the pants off of the stock market in it’s best year. When I started investing in R.E. I was making $8.00/hour… “Newbies, never doubt this; you can make big money in R.E., even starting on a shoestring”, but don’t expect it to happen overnight, and don’t expect it to happen because of dumb luck!!!
Best wishes, and, John, I won’t bother you again (you can have the last word - I am pretty sure you always do).

Re: Look before you leap… - Posted by Chris in FL

Posted by Chris in FL on March 29, 2006 at 14:57:34:

John,
First, I just looked at “Dual Intrepetations”. You posted it after my post “John Behle - excellent…”, so, sadly, I could not have read or considered it (you pointed that out as something I should have done). It was much better than your other posts, which merely combined to make you look very pompous; you appeared to have no other intent than to look for something to needlessly dissect and pick apart in every post you responded to, and my reading comprehension, albeit not great, is not lackluster either. If you think the issue is my reading comprehension, perhaps you should pay attention to the ratio of positive to negative responses your posts draw (unlucky, I guess, that people don’t seem to respond well to you?). Agreed, no point in comparing successes; I merely pointed out my success story (in the making) as evidence that John Behle’s information was accurate and did work. I try to encourage “newbies”, as it were, and not to dash their hopes as being unfounded. I find your professed ideology that success is a lot of luck to be absurd (there are very few cases of that; well over 90% of all millionaires got that way or stay that way from good money management, i.e. - “The Millionaire Next Door”, and most invest in R.E. - go figure!). Anyhow, I don’t care to waste any more of my time arguing with someone bent on being right, to a fault, so good luck in your endeavors. I wish you no ill-will; I just couldn’t leave your unsolicited attacks and negative remarks sitting out there, scaring readers, without refuting them.

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