Posted by Natalie-VA on September 02, 2009 at 13:55:19:
Wealth always helps, but this woman enjoys making her own money. Although, I admit, if I were on the market, I would want anyone I was involved with to be self-sufficient. That way, you don’t have to worry about anyone’s motives. I guess JT didn’t catch that crack about his age…or didn’t think it was funny. 
–Natalie
Trying to find investors. - Posted by Shane O’Sullivan
Posted by Shane O’Sullivan on August 22, 2009 at 15:27:56:
I have a great deal that I’m trying to wholesale right now. But I’m having trouble finding an investor for it. I’m working with one guy in my investor club who is a hard money lender who has a client that does these kind of deals. But with the way things are now a days, he is having trouble finding funds for his client. And this guy has been doing this for about 30 years now so he does know what he is doing. So now I’m trying to find investors outside of my area, but I haven’t had much luck. I know that they are out there, but I’m just not looking in the right area. I’m wondering if anyone knows some good places to look for investors or a place to post this deal were I won’t get nothing but spam from. Now this is a 3.5 million dollar vacation rental house, that is oceanfront on the East coast of NC. It’s going for 2.67 million with a $20,000 finder fee. So it is a big money deal. Thanks for any help you guys can give me.
Re: Trying to find investors. - Posted by Natalie-VA
Posted by Natalie-VA on August 26, 2009 at 08:45:45:
Shane,
I think the problem is the price range. Most investors won’t want to take a chance in that range. If you think about it, buyers have a lot of oceanfront houses to choose from on OBX that are well under those numbers. The other thing, regardless of the location, is that it’s easy to be off 20% of value in the higher price ranges. So, a perceived value of 3.5 mil could turn into 2.8 or less pretty darn quickly.
No disrespect intended, I just think the investor AND retail buyer pool is very small in that price bracket on OBX.
–Natalie
Illegal Securities offering? - Posted by John Merchant
Posted by John Merchant on August 24, 2009 at 11:25:27:
I’ve seen umpteen such “finders” get themselves in trouble with their states’ Financial Institutions or Securites Depts over just such as this.
Those Sec. Depts. felt such offers and solicitations for pvt investors were illegal unregistered securities offerings and issued “cease and desist” orders to force such “finders” to stop their advertising for investors.
From what I’ve seen the NC Sec. Division doesn’t like such and would probably themselves issue you a “Cease and Desist” order.
Further, frankly, big deals like this are in my book, great big money traps as just how would your investment group plan to make the payments on the loan necessary to buy?
Looking around the USA right now, I’ll bet I could find 50 such equally “hot deals” on big, over-priced properties and it’s interesting that their prices just keep dropping.
I’d advise you to back down and start looking for the $1000 “Lonnie Deal” and build your own next egg for the big super deals you might find.
Re: Trying to find investors. - Posted by BTI
Posted by BTI on August 24, 2009 at 11:23:44:
Shane
$20,000 finders fee for this deal. Why not just throw a few peanuts at our feet and ask us to dance while the organ grinds away. Less then 1% WOW someone really wants to swing this deal offering such big money for such a high demand property.
BTI
Re: Trying to find investors. - Posted by Shane
Posted by Shane on August 26, 2009 at 19:13:25:
Hello Natalie, and thank you for the reply. And you are 100% correct. And the pool is very small for this price bracket around here, that is one of the reason I’m posting on here about some good places to look around the country for investor that can do the big deals. And you are also correct about the price ranges, because there are a lot of deals around $200,000 to $300,000 below value. But we are trying to stay away from those deal because we want to find the one with the most equity so that you got enough room to play with, were you are cutting it a lot more close with the one that are $200,000 or so below value. The other reason I’m looking for an investor that can sit on it, because this isn’t a deal that you can turn around on and make money right away. This is one to sit on, and wait for the market to come back. And we all know that no one knows when that is going to happen. And once again thank you for the reply.
Re: Illegal Securities offering? - Posted by Shane
Posted by Shane on August 24, 2009 at 23:02:48:
You know I was told that this is a good site to find some answers to a question that I had. But it looks like instead I get people on here who thinks they know everything in every area around this country. All I ask was some good places to find some investors who like to do big deals. But instead I get blasted by people who don’t know this area that I’m dealing in. First off, if you are asking how an investor would make payments on a loan this big, shows you don’t know this area. These house make over $200,000 a year in rentals. Enough said on that. And like I have heard Lonnie say, yes I know him he is in my investment club, is that every neighborhood is different. And I have been working with my lawyer on this and everything is above broad. So if you were just trying to help with your post, you did come off pretty hard and I’m sorry if I came back the same way. If not, then if you don’t know an area, and you are not going to answer the question that they asked them please keep it to yourself.
Re: Trying to find investors. - Posted by Shane
Posted by Shane on August 24, 2009 at 23:10:52:
I guess what you think of a finder fee is different then what I’m thinking of. The 20,000 is if you know someone who would be interested in the deal, and you let me know about it. That is all that you are doing, is telling the guy that you know about the deal, if he or she likes it then you tell me about them. Then boom, you just made $20,000 for making two phone calls. The other 99% is going to the person who is putting down all the money to buy the house. Because the person getting the finder fee is not putting anything up, but maybe some long distance on the phone. And I think the 20,000 more then covers that. And the main thing here is not the finder fee, I’m wasn’t putting an ad up for this deal. I was asking a question on some good places to find people looking to do the big money deals. So if you are not going to help out with an answer to the person’s question, then don’t waste our time.
Re: Illegal Securities offering? - Posted by Frank Chin
Posted by Frank Chin on August 29, 2009 at 17:05:20:
Shane:
I wouldn’t jump on John so quickly.
There was an author named “Merle Woolley” ( or Whooley) who wrote about using this particular method of investing, posted regularly on this board some years back, but stopped because of legal issues.
Found a more recent thread on this board, but there’s probably others further back if you search the archives, see:
http://www.creonline.com/real-estate-financing/wwwboard6/messages/68907.html
I remember more than one thread on this discussion. There’s no reason to accuse someone of blasting you by bringing up a valid point. John Merchant as was pointed out to you is an attorney, and as I recall written some books on real estate investing, though he doesn’t brag about it here.
Re: Illegal Securities offering? - Posted by Rand
Posted by Rand on August 25, 2009 at 12:48:26:
I would look at the owners of similar rental properties
in the area. If they are enjoying success with one
property than they maybe interested in another. You can
usually find an address for them on county record sites
such as www.netronline.com. Good Luck If you know of
anyone interested in purchasing apartment buildings in
New York give me a hollar…
Re: Trying to find investors. - Posted by BTI
Posted by BTI on August 29, 2009 at 13:22:00:
Shane
Your thinking $20k for a couple of phone calls, not much thought. I’m thinking why should I give you an investor who can make me 20+ times your offer. That investor is an asset, and any real investor is not going to give up that asset for a few peanuts. Of course you may hit a bird-dog with a lucky connection, but hopefully the bird-dog is smarter then that. And from what little info you gave this is not an earthshaking deal but one that emits dollar signs in your head because of the amount. And as you said don’t waste our time.
BTI
Re: Trying to find investors. - Posted by mike
Posted by mike on August 25, 2009 at 23:20:28:
Shane,
If you and your investors have excess cash to carry the property so be
it. This forum can sometimes be referred to as a “Devils Advocate” to
make sure every aspect of your deal is thought through.
200,000 dollars in rents is great…but with an downward spiral in our
economy, maybe(i dont know your area)this property could turn into a
problem property that can’t be fully rented. And with a second wave of
mortgages coming forth to reset, I think round two will cause prices to
fall even more. Im sure you are completely qualified in the RE game,
but I have seen multi millionaire RE Investors lose it all, because they
got anxious, and the one “big RE deal” they did, destroyed them, there
business and there net worth that took them years to build… Sounds
like you are creative, deep down I think you know where to find your
investors and buyers if need be…
Just my thoughts
mike
Re: Illegal Securities offering? - Posted by Shane
Posted by Shane on August 29, 2009 at 17:49:45:
Which I have no problem with. But all that I put were the numbers for this deal to show that it was a multi-million dollar deal and that I was looking for places to find those kind of investors. It was never about the deal but were to look. And just knowing the numbers and nothing else, I don’t think he should have right away put in the title Illegal Securities Offering with out asking me more about the deal first. Now this post has because about this whole thing and not about the question that I asked. If he would have asked me about the deal first before throw that out there, that would have been great. Now I will admit that I should have worked my post different and that I should have never put the numbers in it. But hind sight is 20/20. I would really just like to get back to the question that I was trying to ask. Were are some good places to look for investors who are interested in multi-million dollar deals.
Re: Illegal Securities offering? - Posted by Shane
Posted by Shane on August 25, 2009 at 14:12:43:
Thank you very much, it’s nice to have some one out there answering a question. And I didn’t think of looking at other owners in the area. I should have, but it happens. And if I hear of anyone looking at Apartment buildings in New York I will let you know. Thanks again.
Re: Trying to find investors. - Posted by Shane
Posted by Shane on August 29, 2009 at 14:57:46:
First off, who is saying you are giving up your investor. Funny I didn’t know that you own them. And the last time that I looked investors don’t just work with one person. They are looking for the best deal in the area that they want, so they work with multiple investors. In this business we work as a team to make the most deals, the people who work by themselves and thing they have to hold on to the investors that they have and not let anyone else know about them isn’t going to go as far as if he worked with the other investors around him. And not just working with them because they give you money. Because a couple of months down the line you might need something that another investor can help you with. There is enough business out there for all of us, were we don’t have to turn around and cut each other throats trying not to give up the investors that we work with. And next, this isn’t about the deal on here, remember you are not to put deals on here but to ask questions. And my question was - were are some good places to find investor who are interested in multi-million dollar deals. So can we please get back to my question and not worry about the deal because this post isn’t about it. Thank You.
Re: Trying to find investors. - Posted by Keima
Posted by Keima on August 26, 2009 at 16:08:04:
Hello Shane,
How are you? I’m very interested to see if someone else is interested in this property, I’ll need the complete details.
Thank you and have a blessed joyful day!
K-
Re: Illegal Securities offering? - Posted by Rick, the Probate Guy
Posted by Rick, the Probate Guy on August 25, 2009 at 20:29:28:
Shane - when you fish in the waters of discussion boards for free advise, you’ll often catch what you paid for. However, there’s lots of good information to be had.
Now, you may not agree with every comment made, and you’ll certainly get the odd or offbeat, even inappropriate comment, because this is, after all, a free forum. But overall, most people are trying to be sincere when posed with straight-forward questions.
However, real estate and law are pretty complicated even within states, let alone nationally. I’d guess that at least half or more of the questions related to soliciting investors that I see on this board are from wannabe types who really don’t know what they don’t know yet, because they haven’t had the opportunity to be exposed to the bigger picture. Maybe all they see is the opportunity side promoted by the dream merchants.
One Merchant that does stand out here is John Merchant. He happens to be an attorney, a frequent contributor, and I believe that he’s a pretty bright guy. Now you and I may not agree with everything John says (and I take delight when he shows me an angle I didn’t see) however, he has taken the time to offer help. You can take the best or leave the rest, as you please, but if you want people to take their time in the future, at least on this board, you’ll want to attract as many perspectives to chose from as possible.
Or, you could just hang within your own investment club and see who’s willing to tell you what you want to hear.
Re: As I see it - Posted by BTI
Posted by BTI on August 30, 2009 at 12:15:44:
Shane
Your original post asks for where to seek investors for a deal your trying to wholesale. But then you cross the line which I see as the true intent of your post by offering a finders fee thus a solicitation, call it what you want it is still a solicitation.
You also state a 30 year vet in the area can’t find the funds, jeez I wonder why not. Well I am a vet of 54 years investing and deal at this level of money all the time and probable have over 2000 investors in my files, not one of which would I recommend contacting you. No, I don’t own them but decades of loyalty and great results will make me a gatekeeper if you want to deal with them.
If it’s a great investment you will find the funds, as a matter of fact give me a couple of days and I can write a check to cover it, and so can tons of my investor friends. Oh wait, we are not interested, too many less risky and more profitable deals floating around out there needing the money, but of course that is only my personal opinion, but as the old golden rule says, those with the gold make the rules.
BTI
Re: Illegal Securities offering? Question for Rick - Posted by Jack-E
Posted by Jack-E on August 26, 2009 at 17:22:08:
Another excellent post from Rick the Probate Guy. How long have you been in this business Rick?
Thanks, Jack. Started in 1978, age 23 (NT) - Posted by Rick, the Probate Guy
Posted by Rick, the Probate Guy on August 27, 2009 at 23:32:10:
.