WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by Trent Flanigan

Posted by Jacque on May 07, 2006 at 09:21:33:

Interesting thread! I have been in REI for over 3 years full-time and have found that you can buy property for No Money Down and with NO Credit and Get Money Back at Closing, as I have done it all. It’s not easy, nor intuitive, nor is it something you learn to do with one program…or at least not one I’ve found out there. What the Guru’s don’t teach is how to set up and run a business! This is, and should be treated, as a legitimate business. To run a legitimate business, you DO need money to make it, credit to back it up and a great deal of patience and tenacity! Nothing comes free, without time or effort. Working smart, which includes researching first, then investing in the appropriate training for our craft, is part of the equation.

Just like any business, if you put your mind to it and overcome any obstacles you may have learned over time which prohibit your success, you CAN and WILL succeed. It’s not to the credit of the Guru’s or to their lack of conditioning or training programs that you will succeed or fail!

Just my two cents.

Creonline is a great resource and was a catalyst to my entry into the investor forum.

WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by Trent Flanigan

Posted by Trent Flanigan on March 07, 2006 at 22:10:53:

Beware of this guy and his courses and whatever else he teaches.

Because of his course i have lost a few thousand dollars.

His methods are not good at all. I think he is just as the likes of Robert Allen and Russ Whitney, who have been investigated in the past.

Stay away from John Alexander, Robert Allen, And Russ Whitney…

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by CHRIS IN FL

Posted by CHRIS IN FL on March 10, 2006 at 14:10:00:

ROBERT ALLEN & RUSS WHITNEY - METHODS ARE NOT GOOD? NOW YOU ARE GENERALIZING WITHOUT ENOUGH INFORMATION. I HAPPEN TO HAVE STUDIED BOTH EXTENSIVELY (BOOKS, TAPES, AND SAW ROBERT ALLEN AT A FREE SEMINAR), AND FOUND BOTH TO HAVE EXCELLENT MATERIALS, IDEAS, MOTIVATION, ETC. I DID NOT TAKE THEIR $5K COURSES, BUT FROM PEOPLE THAT HAVE, I HAVE HEARD BOTH “THE COURSE IS WORTH TEN TIMES WHAT I PAID” FROM PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY USED THE MATERIAL, AS WELL AS “WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY” FROM SOMEONE WHO BARELY LOOKED AT THE MATERIAL AND NEVER TRIED IT. INDEED, THAT IS A WASTE OF MONEY. EVERY GURU HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED FOR SOMETHING OR OTHER, AND PROBABLY MOSTLY BECAUSE PEOPLE SEARCHING FOR PIE IN THE SKY OVERNIGHT RICHES WERE UNHAPPY THAT REAL ESTATE INVESTING ACTUALLY REQUIRES, DILIGENCE, PLANNING, FOLLOW-THROUGH, ACTION, AND FREQUENTLY SOME HARD WORK. ROBERT ALLEN’S MATERIAL IS THE BEST OF THE BEST, AND RUSS WHITNEY’S IS NOT BAD EITHER, COMING FROM A SUCCESSFUL, EXPERIENCED INVESTOR WHO HAS STUDIED (AND GAINED KNOWLEDGE) FROM BOTH, AND MANY OTHERS. ALMOST ALL GURUS HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER, OR THEY WOULDN’T REACH GURU STATUS. AS WITH ANYTHING I STUDY, I TRY OUT OR USE WHAT MAKES SENSE TO ME, AND DISREGARD WHAT DOESN’T. NOT EVERY GURU CAN BE EVERYTHING TO EVERY INVESTOR.

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by Charles

Posted by Charles on March 09, 2006 at 22:44:02:

I would also like to know about his course and how you lost money. Many of these folks selling course are investigated. Some times amatures use techniques that are not prescribed, and make mistakes due to lack of experience and knowledge.

How did a course cause you a loss?

Wishing you good luck,

Charles

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by Bob Taylor

Posted by Bob Taylor on March 08, 2006 at 08:32:45:

Tell us why we should stay away from John.

BT

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by Gus

Posted by Gus on March 11, 2006 at 08:15:29:

Chris. You seem to depict a pollyana attitude on all Gurus. Just because someone is called a Guru, doesn’t of itself mean he knows beans about investing. Some are good, some are bad. Robert Allen seems to have stood the test of time, although he has had some rocky roads. But Whitney is a different story. He has been in deep water since the begining. Search him on this site. He has very little support for his questionable antics and has been in challenged in several states and the subject of investigation and prosecution in some. I know very little about John Alexander, only what I read here. Gurus in general are a lot like lawyers, realtors and several others in this business. Its buyer beware! It does not behove any investor to assume they must be alright, just because they have achieved some degree of so called status. No offense, but your caps are showing which is usually a sign of shouting in e-mails on sites.

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by Trent

Posted by Trent on March 10, 2006 at 18:36:48:

I have been an investor for 14 years. Made my mistakes,etc,etc.

I love learning new methods and having more tools in my toolbelt.

With Russ Whitney and Robert Allen, come on guys, these gurus are not good at all. I went to all their training, spent upwards of $25,000. I might have learned 1 thing from both of them that will save me a few thousand while im still investing. But those scenarios are rare that they will come up.

Overall they are not worth it to the newbie or experienced.

With John A’s course, bought the package, implemented the techniques right away and 2 months later I closed 3 deals. after 3 months I got a call and letter from the Attorney Generals office. They are suing me. Went to court and lost because the techniques are not legal. Lender sued me and then the owner sued me. I lost both cases and upwards of over $20,000 on each suit.

Now I took the course last year-05.

Beware.

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by Channel Sanderson

Posted by Channel Sanderson on March 28, 2006 at 21:57:52:

I have been investing in Real Estate only a year. I have bought 4 houses, and sold 3. By the time I got to the third one, I had read something in some Gurudocs about personal notes as partial payment. Wow! the idea seemed great. The thing is, I have a lawyer who doesn’t let me do anything that’s not legal. I paid his greens fees for the day and he wrote up a nice legal-in-maryland note for me to use.

It’s silly to suggest that the gurus have nothing to teach. Someone can learn something from them. Even if you only get the right mindset it’s something. The ideas they promote may not be legal in your state. They were at one time players though. They know something they can teach.

Donald Trump did not get to be the Donald by hiding and coloring within the lines. He’s a player. I want to be a player too. I just want to run it past my attorney first. lol Better to understand the risks I’m taking than to blindly follow instructions from a guru.

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by Burpo Marx

Posted by Burpo Marx on April 16, 2006 at 14:48:30:

By the way - anybody heard of John Alexander?

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by Chris in FL

Posted by Chris in FL on March 13, 2006 at 08:03:59:

Sorry about the caps, all. Pollyana attitude - no, but household name gurus don’t get that way without delivering the goods, to some degree or another. I will drop my defense of Russ Whitney; I read two of his books, and didn’t see much that I would question, but there was little originality, too. Robert Allen, though, I have studies more extensively, and he (along with partner Mark Victor Hansen) is top-notch. He has excellent ideas and a ton of different ways to build wealth while doing good in the world. I just don’t see where that needs to be bad-mouthed.
I am an avid learner, and I have read or studied some material from almost every major guru somewhere along the line, and almost without fail I have gained knowledge, insight, or motivation from every one of them. Buyer beware, yes. When you study any major guru, take what works for you, apply it, and better yourself and your investing. Leave what doesn’t make sense for you. Some gurus have their problems, but most of the bad-mouthing of gurus I see just doesn’t hold water. Gus, sorry if you disagree!

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by Jamal

Posted by Jamal on March 16, 2006 at 10:42:49:

Could you tell us what state you’re in and what lender sued you? I have done some of the inverse purchases and would like to know what the courts found illegal about them. Thanks in advance.

Jamal

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER. - Posted by John Corey

Posted by John Corey on March 15, 2006 at 03:06:53:

Trent,

Focusing only on Robert Allen only…

As you have been investing for 14 years and there was no comment as to when you might have studied Allen’s materials so no one knows what you might have already understood when you started with Allen’s materials.

As Allen has published a number of books and they are at the library in many communities people can learn from his materials and pay nothing.

If a person only learns one idea from his books the person is either very skilled already as a RE investor or a very slow learner. Just focus on Nothing Down or Creating Wealth. There is a lot of insight in both. Nothing Down clearly has more than 1 idea even for slow learners.

The problem many students have when they are getting started is they get stars in their eyes, think it will be easy and are not willing to put in the time to study the details over time.

Yes, many of the Allen ideas are the same ideas that others have promoted either before or after Allen published the ideas. The ideas are not unique to Allen. At some level that is why the ideas work. They have been proven by different people in the marketplace.

Any newbie should start at the library and then the bookstore so they keep the costs down. If they can not learn from a published book they should look somewhere else to earn money. It is not the author who is at fault. RE investing deals with a lot of paper and contracts so being able to focus on written information is an important skill. Some might prefer to have a mentor but that will cost a bit more.

John Corey

My history - short version

  1. Purchased Nothing Down and studied the book.
  2. Took a 2 day Nothing Down seminar for a fee over a weekend.
  3. The following Monday I purchased a home with ‘nothing down’ after walking to the closest Realtor’s office. Used the ideas presented in the book and the seminar to do the deal.

The above was a long time ago and I have read most of the books Allen has written since. I also did a week look camp in the 1980’s with Allen. The guy is no saint. Compared to many people he has done more good than harm. Some students are lacking in motivation or intellectual ability while others are naive. It is hard to screen out such folks when they sign up to take a seminar. Anyone who keeps spending money with a guru when they do not feel the guru provides value needs to stop and reconsider why they keep reaching for their wallet.

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER.- GURUS - Posted by Gus

Posted by Gus on March 13, 2006 at 16:17:35:

Chris. There have been several “household name gurus” who have wound up either in the pokey or discreted. Even Robert Allen has taken his hits. What ever guru you are interested in, I highly recommend you research him on this site, by entering his name in the search engine. Reed’s site has info on about all too, although some don’t like him either, but he is willing to put it out there for you to take or leave as you recommend. You will learn more on this site and at your local Real Estate Association than by far the vast majority of gurus can give you and it will cost you little or nothing

Bravo! - Posted by Berno

Posted by Berno on March 15, 2006 at 08:29:12:

I can’t understand why people who are supposedly getting “ripped off” keep passing out the cash to those who are screwing them over. I think if I would have done nothing but use CRE Online, I still could have been successful. If you spend tons of $$ on courses and don’t succeed, maybe you will find the reason why by looking in the mirror. That’s my opinion.

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER- GOOD POST - Posted by Gus

Posted by Gus on March 15, 2006 at 05:54:36:

A very astute analysis John. Keep up the good work and here is to sucessful investing

Re: WARNING-JOHN ALEXANDER.- GURUS - Posted by Chris in FL

Posted by Chris in FL on March 14, 2006 at 07:49:37:

Gus,
I responded to you privately already, and mentioned one parable I would post. I probably heard this from a guru, but it was years ago and I don’t remember any more who to give credit to: Fishermen of old put one crab in a six inch high tin can, and the crab would climb out and get away. By and by, the fishermen found that they could but a whole bunch of crabs in a tin container only one inch high, and they would never get away. You see, every time a crab tried to climb out of the tin, the other crabs would grab him and pull him back in.
While I imagine the original intent was to make newbies aware that they would initially need to overcome the doubts and fears family and friends would undoubtedly raise, I see it also in the way so many try to detract from the gurus (pull them back into the tin) when they should simply learn what they can learn, gather what benefit they can from the teachings, and move on. Don’t pull the gurus back into the tin, watch them and learn how to get out of the tin yourself! Best wishes to all honest and ethical investors - if you haven’t already, get out of the tin!

Good Post Chris - Posted by Berno

Posted by Berno on March 14, 2006 at 08:48:04:

I’d like to add that in my opinion, most people that were “ripped off” by a guru probably just lacked the motivation, or something else, and sat on the couch instead of going out and applying what they had learned. It’s true, some people don’t have the God-given talents to make it in this business, but it certainly isn’t the fault of the guru.
Many experienced investors also denounce these folks because they are just teaching things that are already well known. Well, surprise, the general public doesn’t already know this stuff! I’m a realist, and I call a spade a spade, but the negativity that some people show on this site is just too much sometimes.

Re: Good Post Chris - Posted by Craig

Posted by Craig on March 16, 2006 at 12:10:26:

Berno
I agree with you that some people just don’t get off the couch, but the biggest part of the problem is the guru’s convincing these people that they can do it and that it is easy, with only a couple of hours a week.
I think if you really looked at the people making it in REI would have made it with or without a course from any of the guru’s.
Those are the people that go out and do it no matter what.
Gurus are out there trying to cinvince everyone that they can do it.
And that is where they make most of their money. From people that they know will never buy a single piece of property.

Packages sitting un-opened - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on March 14, 2006 at 17:00:42:

Not every guru or course is necessarily up to par, but there is an issue your post touches on.

Many of the students do nothing with the material. Yet, they blame the guru. They send the course back a year later un-opened. Or, it just sits in their garage. Sometimes in company with tens of thousands of dollars of courses.

I have literally met wanna-be investors who park on the street because their garage is full of home study courses.

We were having a lunch one day at an investor’s conference. Several of the speakers and exhibitors were sitting chatting about the subject of “how many people use the material?” No one had any studies, but one guru had an interesting experience.

He said he received a desperate call from his tape duplicator. He said he had just found a problem with the tapes.

This guru had sold many, many dozens of this newly packaged course over the weeks before this call. The problem he found out was that the first side of the first tape was recorded and the last side of the last tape was recorded, but that an error had left the rest of the tapes blank.

Hal says he was able to get all of the tapes replaced before anyone even complained - or noticed?

Success has much more to do with the student or the course. And yes, many blame the gurus for their lack of success. Some read a book or two and with drive and determination create big results. Others buy every course they can find and never a property.

Fear has a lot to do with it.

At the same time, there are gurus out there that actually tend to cater to those who are least likely to succeed. They know that promises and systems and bonuses and discounts draw money from the gullible. They take sales and speaking courses, use techniques of group persuasion and even NLP and hypnosis type techniques. They run to the back of the room waving a hundred dollar bill with lemmings chasing after them to try to get it.

Those who use the techniques sell more and sell more to those less likely to succeed. Then, with a total lack of conscience they then make the students feel it is their fault for the lack of success and the only cure is the advanced course or training. Usually this is the same guru that told them the basic course was all they would ever need in life.

All the courses in the world will not make someone successful. A success can make it with little or no training. Someone can fail or not even try after buying the best course available while others can get their start through one of the worst courses or gurus available.

So yes, there are good and bad gurus. There are good and bad courses. Yet, in the long run success most depends on the individual and their drive and determination.

Re: Good Post Chris - But Naive! - Posted by Gus

Posted by Gus on March 14, 2006 at 16:04:54:

I got out of the tin a long time ago, since I have been sucessfully investing for over 25 years. Your anlogy about the crabs may not be so far off the pace as a lot of so called Gurus seem to act like crabs, especially when they latch on to unsuspecting investor’s money. The whole point here is not that any one is trying to drag down Guru’s in general, I and a lot of other experienced investors are just saying, sometimes, in fact many times you don’t get what you pay for. Many investors have been fleeced by so called Gurus who package a lot of missinformation and repackage it again, and again and sell it for outlandish sums, especially their coaching products. If you want to think all Gurus must be alright or they wouldn’t be “Gutus”, then so be it. It’s your money and you can do with it what you would like to do. But don’t try to sell crabs when most investor’ would expect steak. My advise to you and to all investors is to take all Gurus with a grain of salt, until they prove their worth, especially those asking you for thousands of dollars. Salty crabs taste better anyway.