Posted by Todd on June 03, 2004 at 23:32:58:
it al depends on how you define “Investor”
$200K+ per year? - Posted by Nuthn2it
Posted by Nuthn2it on June 02, 2004 at 05:45:14:
200K seems like a good income in even the most expensive markets.
Any thoughts on the percentage of investors creating $200K or more of income per year?
This would include, sales, passive income etc, minus expenses.
Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by Mike
Posted by Mike on June 04, 2004 at 19:07:20:
Probably a small percentage. Everyone is chasing the same kind of deals. The key is to find a niche. Work a niche and you will make much more than 200k a year.
Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by a
Posted by a on June 04, 2004 at 07:56:27:
accoding to the census figures, about 1%.
I’ll make over $1 million - Posted by Lee
Posted by Lee on June 03, 2004 at 22:30:53:
Have been investing for 5+ years. I will make over $1 million this year, actual cash in my pocket. Of course, that’s before taxes. And, yes it has been a tough market!
Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by jasonrei
Posted by jasonrei on June 03, 2004 at 10:04:16:
1 in thousands is my guess.
.01%?
Yes, $200k is only 10 $20k deals per year. To actually net $20k isn’t that easy IMO, not in the current market. I know of maybe 4 guys in my market (out of dozens of full-timers) that pull $200k.
Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by Sean
Posted by Sean on June 02, 2004 at 22:17:33:
The question is 200k+ a year in recognizable “profit” or 200k+ a year in cashflow? Making 200k in cash is possible in your first year in business if you work hard… not it may not all be cashouts from selling properties, but cashouts from refinancings etc… but its doable.
How many actually do that? My experience VERY VERY FEW…
Remember not everyone is going to be successful in REI… its a business like any other. Many people fail, for various reasons. I know people who were on top of the game, only to fall to the depths in short order…
You want to see who’s the real money in your REI group, often its the quieter older guys in the back dressed in tshirts or flannels… many of them don’t say much, but when they do its worth its weight in gold. The older guys who look like they can’t find 2 pennies to rub together to look at them, often have multimillion dollar portfolios raking them in tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands a month.
I was just telling someone the other day, you want to make 250k a year in Real estate, go buy yourself 20 duplexes that cashflow at about 1000 a month gross… make sure the tenants pay all utilities (water may be the exception but that’s it)… In my market such a property would be 50k +/- in the best cashflowing neighborhoods that aren’t warzones…
Finance them with 15 year financing, making the mortgage payments and taxes around the 500 a month range… then you have a monthly cashflow of around 10k a month… and after 15 years, you have 20-30k a month figuring in rental increases and everything else…
Just do that, and you can live a rather comfortable existence. Yes I know its not as sexy as buy a house sell it in a year for 100k profit thanks to appreciation, but it works.
If you wish to shorten the 15 year wait, flip a few houses and use the $$ to pay off the mortgages faster etc etc…
20-30k a month = 240-360k a year… not a bad income. All PASSIVE… now that’s not likely to happen inside of 3 years but unless you plan on dying in the next 10 years, who cares?
Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by Jack
Posted by Jack on June 02, 2004 at 19:31:43:
% of full time investors that have been investing full time for more than 3 years that make $200K/year: 10%
% of all current self described ‘investors’ that make $200K/year: 1%
prove it - Posted by J.
Posted by J. on June 03, 2004 at 23:56:07:
where are you located
and what type of deals do you mainly do
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Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by David (Los Angeles)
Posted by David (Los Angeles) on June 03, 2004 at 08:39:54:
Where are you investing? $50K duplexes that cashflow at $500/mo (probably less than that after maintenance, but still…) sounds very good to me. It’s almost impossible to buy a property that will cashflow above $0 here in L.A. Maybe you won’t want to say because you don’t want the competition, but could you use a partner?
Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by Kristine-CA
Posted by Kristine-CA on June 02, 2004 at 21:45:17:
Jack: I’m curious, where did you get these numbers?
Re: prove it - Posted by Lee
Posted by Lee on June 04, 2004 at 09:05:15:
Why is a million so hard to believe. I am in a large city on the east coast. I’ll have 30 or more sales this year with profits ranging for 20,000 to 100,000 per sale. You do the math. I know of one other investor that specializes in forclosures that made 1.2 million last year (larger volume but lower profit per unit). This person works with a number of investors and gets a share of the profit on each.
Lee
Lee
Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by Sean
Posted by Sean on June 03, 2004 at 09:25:48:
David,
I agree, you can’t do that in hot markets or most larger cities… LA, NYC, etc… But in markets where things aren’t crazy, and single family homes aren’t 300-500k a pop for a 1200’ starter, you can indeed find those types of properties.
In my market, a flat market, been a buyers market for 20+ years now, appreciation is virtually non existant, while national average might be 50% over last 10 years, here its more like 30%… The only appreciation you get to enjoy is forced appreciation of rehabbing… but we do have cashflow, and if you are buying the right properties and manage them properly you can cashflow well.
Now there are some isolated pockets where appreciations are through the roof… but for the most part, that just isn’t how it is here. And frankly, I let the appreciation sluts chase that nonsense.
Acquiring multies at 20-30k a unit (or less) is not difficult at all.
I might be interested in doing some syndication for larger multies with you and others if you are interested… Got my eye on a 7 unit that they claim grosses a little over 3500 a month, and I am sure I can pick up for in the 200-250k range or less.
I’m based in Pittsburgh, PA for the record.
Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by Jack
Posted by Jack on June 02, 2004 at 21:58:58:
The subject heading of my original post was ‘my guess’. Evidently it reverted back to the default heading when I paged back to edit it. I am thinking my estimates high now.
Re: prove it - Posted by Amy
Posted by Amy on June 12, 2004 at 13:36:34:
Lee,
Do you offer mentoring???
Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by bykasif
Posted by bykasif on August 27, 2004 at 17:15:58:
Hi Sean,
I hope you are still following this forum. I have been in the market(NYC and NJ) to find rental income properties for 4-5 months. Well, as you guess so, it’s impossible to have cash flow here with these high home prices. After reading your comments about possiblity of having ~$50K properties with ~$500 monthly cashflow in your area, I have become seriously interested. Since I live in NYC, I have no idea about those areas. Could you help me to find an honest, experienced realtor who is gonna work with me on continue base to find properties? Also, i would really appreciate if you share your information and experiences about this kinda opportunities/purchases.
Regards,
agah
Re: $200K+ per year? - Posted by HG
Posted by HG on June 03, 2004 at 09:47:18:
$200k is 10 deals at $20k profit. Are you telling me only 1% of investors reach the 10 house per year mark??