Bill's Challenge - Posted by Ed Garcia


Posted by Ed Garcia on February 21, 1999 at 23:19:35:


Your observation, is a good one. You are right Bill was not looking for
motivated sellers. I also would like to tell you I agree with the other
contents of you posting.
I don?t want to make any comments about Bill other than in respect to
his original posting. I don?t think it would be fair.

But he seems like a pretty straight guy, and if he wants help, I?ll give it
to him.

Take Care Bud, see you in Dallas.

Ed Garcia


Bill’s Challenge - Posted by Ed Garcia

Posted by Ed Garcia on February 20, 1999 at 01:08:03:

Bill?s Challenge

Bill called me today in response to my answering his
After conversing with Bill, I realized that there is a lot of
Bill in
all of us.

Here is a man who is retired and has been trying
to do deals as
mentioned on this site with out the success he feels he should have
received. When an
individual works a technique or system that everyone
seems to be
successful with, and it doesn?t seem to work for them, they
confidence in that technique or system and feel it?s just a lot of B.S.

Bill was frustrated about the whole thing and decided to challenge the
board, and for no better choice of words , as kind of a reality check.
His thinking was, since he was not having much success with doing
deals himself, then let the people who say they are doing them,
partner up with him and show him it can be done.

Sometimes when we post our success on this board, we make them seem
easy. The truth of the matter is, that a lot of hard work goes into them.

I?m sure a lot of viewers feel the frustration felt by Bill.
seems to come easy for some of us, is a mission impossible
for others.

I watch people who read and learn the information necessary to do a
deal, find that it won?t work when they apply it themselves.

The reason being, is even though the courses and information
provided by this forum is invaluable. It doesn?t teach negotiating or
how to sell, which is paramount in deal making.

Terry Vaughan brought this to my attention 6 months ago, and
suggested that we incorporate this in our work shop.
At that time I told Terry, that we only have 3 days and already we
had to eliminate information.

But after seeing Bill?s posting today, I?m thinking that Terry is right.

What?s your opinion ?

Ed Garcia


Re: Bill’s Challenge - Posted by Jen NE

Posted by Jen NE on February 22, 1999 at 13:23:24:

I for one would love it if you and Terry did something with negotiating/roleplaying in Dallas!

I’m an educated individual who understands the concepts and puts forth the effort but loses it when talking to the seller/realtor. I get tongue tied, back down for fear of coming off too aggressive or sounding dumb, shyness, etc…

It’s funny… I always told my husband that I would never do sales as a job when I graduated (I work for a big company in finance), but when I really dug into this RE investing and explained it to him he said “Isn’t that sales so to speak?” I laughed and said that I’m going to have to practice and get over my shyness in dealing with people to be successful - so the more help in Dallas the better!


Re: Bill’s Challenge - Posted by Bud Branstetter

Posted by Bud Branstetter on February 21, 1999 at 18:35:46:


I’ve gone back and read Bill’s challenge. From the information posted you can’t tell if he is approaching motivated sellers or just any seller. I’m not sure that I’ve seen any of his deals posted for comments. Since you have talked to him you may know if he is ready for a mentor to discuss one on one. Or would it benefit him to post his deals and his approach. Roger Dawson has some good tapes on closing/negotiating real estate deals. Others have courses to. I have proposed to some of the people in this area that role playing would be good experience. If I were in Bill’s position I would ask myself what am I doing wrong so that I could correct it rather than challenge someone to show me how. Yes, he did just that in a back handed way. There is indeed information missing that experience teaches. A couple examples are closing statements, purchase contracts and insurance.

I don’t know his area but I’m not sure he is at the point that the challenge should be considered. I think it would be worth while for the Players Club to discuss what the curriculum should be for the School of Creative Real Estate.


Re: Bill’s Challenge - Posted by hk CA

Posted by hk CA on February 20, 1999 at 14:50:22:

I can understand Bill’s frustration and can see the reasoning behind his challenge. What ticked people off, I believe, was the arrogance of asking a professional dealmaker to take the time and go through the expense of educating him and then having the student reap the majority of the profits. He should have felt grateful that someone would teach him the ropes and be a mentor to him. Mentors often charge a fee for their knowledge.

The second thing that ticked some of us off was the implication that we are feeding him a lot of BS on this board.

Perhaps the wording of his post was not well thought out. I hope he is able to find the reasons behind his frustration and the keys to finding success in RE investing.


As usual Ed… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on February 20, 1999 at 10:59:44:

As usual ED,
The “Class” you have shines through and you catch what the everyone else misses. Bill, good luck in your endeavors, it did seem to me that your posts were coming from a stand point of arrogance. I hope that you continue to post and ask questions because that is how we all learn. It wasn’t until recently that my deals started coming together fluidly, so I can understand your frustration. All I can say is hang in there and your persistance will prevail, and you too will wonder when someone posts a challenge.

David Alexander


Re: Bill’s Challenge - Posted by Carol

Posted by Carol on February 20, 1999 at 09:02:06:

Ed, as usual your post is full of wisdom and thoughtfulness.
In including some work on negotiating in a seminar, I would hope it would include role playing - because ultimately, that’s what we all need … role models we can play off of.
And frankly, it sounds like that’s what Bill needs (like the rest of us).
Sometimes we get in ruts, and even if they are ‘successful’ ruts, exposure to new models will keep our
creativity fresh!
Thanks again for your usual thoughtfulness and consideration of the human condition!


Workshop! - Posted by BRnBA

Posted by BRnBA on February 20, 1999 at 09:00:31:

Ed, could you please provide some info. on you’re Workshop such as when, where and how much?


Re: Bill’s Challenge - Posted by SCook85

Posted by SCook85 on February 20, 1999 at 08:53:14:

I thought a lot about Bill’s post in fact it was the first thing on my mind this morning when I woke up (scary!!!). I was insulted by Bill’s post, I couldn’t understand how Bill would expect someone to come out and get the deals done for him and take less money for doing so. But then as I do when selling a home I put myself into the other persons shoes and see things from there perspective. Most of the people that I speak with about what it is that I do think that I have a ton of money, and that because I have a ton of money I am able to pull off all of these deals. I have never used my own money in any deal that I have done; I couldn’t, I never had money to use.

When I took a step back and thought more about Bill’s post I saw myself 8 months ago (frustrated, but I didn’t have resources to work with). I just wanted someone to help out and show me how to do a deal.
I read everything I could get my hands on, I knew just about everything I could possibly know, but couldn’t make a deal happen. I sort of fell into my first deal and was surprised when it happened. I wondered what took place this time that had not happened before. I was able to look at the whole situation and see how my negotiations were different, how I moved foward and how I closed the deal. Deals started getting easier from that point on. I still worked hard.

If you and Terry can teach people how to get to that point great. I think it would be a wonderful thing. I talked to someone the other day about this whole topic. I told them that I could teach anybody the basics of how to do a flip but to actually tell them how to get in the trenches and do it and do the deals on there own, I couldn’t figure it out. I felt the best way is to just have people follow me in my day to day activities and actually watch what it is that I do. Listen in on phone calls made, see the offers and contracts presented, and so on.
I’m a horrible teacher and don’t ever expect to be able to come up with a good solution but hopefully you will. I’d love to get better at this myself.

I’m just as guilty as Bill for not putting myself into the other parties shoes before thinking out my post. Bill was frustrated, I was insulted. I didn’t see his frustration and I he obviously did not see it from my or others point of view. I use this same idea everyday when negotiationg deals. I should use it in more aspects of my life.

To sum things up Ed, I think it would be great. There are many courses out there that teach the basics, many of which I thought were advanced courses at one time, but no one teaches the actual getting in the trenches and negotiating the deal.



Re: Bill’s Challenge - Posted by Dan (NC)

Posted by Dan (NC) on February 20, 1999 at 07:23:38:

I’ll be the first to sign up if you and Terry offer a workshop addressing this.


Re: Bill’s Challenge - Posted by PBoone

Posted by PBoone on February 20, 1999 at 01:37:36:

Agreed and very well said, I too have felt Bill’s frustration recently, what looked like great negotiating and hard work turned out to be a costly actually my last two deals have been costly mistakes. When I say costly it is in the term of $$$$$$ which always hurts the worst.
I have been beaten by error and arrogance (humbled) and it has taken me a month to get back on the horse. With skepticism and caution I move foward. Ed thank you for the post.