Carleton Sheets & Other Gurus at the Creonline Convention - Posted by Buddy

Posted by HR on March 24, 2000 at 06:28:53:

By McLean and Eldred, Investing In Real Estate, 2nd Edition, is imho the best book on the market for rei. I agree with your assessment completely.


Carleton Sheets & Other Gurus at the Creonline Convention - Posted by Buddy

Posted by Buddy on March 23, 2000 at 15:27:58:

Just curious if the Creonline Convention has ever had a RE guru like Carleton Sheets speak at a convention? I’m guessing these gurus charge too high fee to do something like this. If this has never been tried, would the powers that be at this site consider bringing one of these guys in to speak at next year’s convention? Thoughts?

Let’s take the GU out of the RU… - Posted by Ed Garcia

Posted by Ed Garcia on March 24, 2000 at 14:09:49:



Knowledge with MARKETING, is Carlton Sheets and Ron LeGrand and others mentioned
by John Behle.

The fact of the matter is , these men aren’t Gurus at all, their just knowledgeable gentleman who
had the ability to market their knowledge.

What made them look like Gurus is the way they package their knowledge and their marketing strategies.

They seem like Gurus to a NEWBIE.

Once you become knowledgeable and experienced, you can see where these men have fallen short.
I’m not saying that they haven’t done an excellent job. I’m saying I don’t consider them a Guru.

Why? It’s because of them that I’m here.

Tell me, How do you teach deal making with out teaching FINANCING which is so important in a deal? NONE of them have taught a buyable financing program, because they don’t know financing. When talking about Creative Real-estate, why hasn’t anybody but me, taught Creative financing as well. Even though these gentlemen are teaching the basic fundamentals of Deal making, I personally think they’re out dated. TIMES HAVE CHANGED.
Ron LeGrand has a package that he sells for twice as much as my workshop and he don’t even do his own
Mentoring. The participants are mentored by someone that has maybe one or two years in the business.
Why? Marketing, Mr. LeGrands name is so big, he don’t have time for mentoring. He’s busy selling more

For two years in a row, I been up against LeGrand at the Creonline Conventions. For two years in a row the night of the round table, there was standing room only at my table when Le Grand had plenty of room for more people at his. Why? Because people are realizing that to really be a DEAL MAKER, you have to know FINANCING. (Show Me the Money)

The Newbie’s are overwhelmed with creative real-estate information because their learning it for the first time.

So I say to you, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and so are Gurus.

When you’ve been around for a while, you take the GU out of the RU.

I’m not a Guru, I’m Ed Garcia, a man trying to teach and share a life time of information to you so that you
can make some money. I’m an accident, I wasn’t meant to be. If it wasn’t for this forum, Terry and J.P.Vaughan I wouldn’t have taken the time to do this. If it wasn’t for some of you and the RESULTS we have had together, I wouldn’t have continued to do it.

Others on this site, people like John Bahle, Bill Bronchick , Ray Alcon, Lonnie Scriggs, Terry Vaughan, this is some of finest collection of knowledge and talent you can come by. People like Jim Piper, Bud
Branstetter, Phil Fernandez, what a collection of Jewels they are. There is not a GURU on the planet that
can give you what the names I have just mentioned can give you. Enjoy them while you can, I do.

Ed Garcia

Re: Carleton Sheets & Other Gurus at the Creonline Convention - Posted by Den MN

Posted by Den MN on March 24, 2000 at 08:55:39:


I am under the impression that a guru is a teacher that gives of his time and energy. All of the teachers on this NG give their time and energy to teach and may sell a little on the side. C.S. could be construde as a guru in mass media selling. However, I think we all subscribe to this NG to learn about RE. investing not mass media selling.

Den MN

Re: Carleton Sheets & Other Gurus at the Creonline Convention - Posted by chris

Posted by chris on March 24, 2000 at 04:13:24:


For real estate are there any other names you can think of besides Sheets and Whitney who you would
consider power houses?

I think this is one of those areas where people have their own favorites. Whitney is not on my list for example.

Myself, I would like to listen to Trump if he is available. I’m sure that would cost some major bucks.


Re: Carleton Sheets & Other Gurus at the Creonline Convention - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on March 23, 2000 at 19:49:01:

Geez Buddy,

I take it you were not at the last convention in Atlanta. Let’s see guru’s. Hmmmm.

How bout Bill Bronchick or maybe Lonnie Scruggs or maybe Ron LeGrand. I think I saw Jeffrey Taylor of Mr. Landlord there. And I shook John Behle’s hand. Yup Robert K was there again.

And Ray Alcorn and there was Ed Garcia and Terry Vaughn.

How bout the guru’s that didn’t speak at the convention , but were very accessible like Jim Piper, Steve Cook, Hugh Brohma etc.

Seems like there were quite a few of them there. Now who is this Carleton Sheets guy you are talking about.

Re: Carleton Sheets & Other Gurus at the Creonline Convention - Posted by Bert G

Posted by Bert G on March 23, 2000 at 16:09:18:

CRE has had Ron LeGrand, John Behle, Lonnie Scruggs, and a host of other experts. Why would we want to waste our time with Sheets?

Or by “guru” do you mean someone who runs late-nite infomercials. Well, I hear LeGrand runs one in some markets, so maybe he counts.

Actually, that’s a GREAT idea… - Posted by HR

Posted by HR on March 24, 2000 at 06:35:21:

Hey JP and Terry,

What about inviting Donald Trump as the lead speaker at next year’s convention? I think it’s a great idea.

Why would he come? The money? Heck no. The power: it’s an opportunity to talk to an enthralled crowd that would listen to his message. And Trump loves to have folks listen to his message.

It’s one of those things that’s wierd enough to maybe just happen.


Okay, but…you missed the point - Posted by Buddy

Posted by Buddy on March 23, 2000 at 21:49:00:

I’m not discounting any of the names you mentioned - they’re all experts and highly respected - no argument there. I guess I shouldn’t have used the word guru - it depends on your definition of it. To me, guru applies to only a few people in any industry - the true “kings” of an industry that can market to the masses. Let’s face it - in any industry there’s many experts but only a very few who are worth the mega millions (i.e. Carleton Sheets, Russ Whitney, Warren Buffet). These mega millionaires are the ones with the cash and the largest businesses that can market their name and products to the masses.

Look at this website for example and you’ll see that newsgroup II is dedicated strictly to the gurus of the industry. I don’t see the names you mentioned above on newsgroup II very much - because they’re not gurus. And that’s okay - I learn more from the names you mentioned above and their posts on newsgroup I than the guru discussions on newsgroup II. Bottom line: these are all good people you mentioned. I was just hoping to see my hero and favorite speaker Sheets at the convention.

And didn’t I spot… - Posted by HR

Posted by HR on March 23, 2000 at 21:43:22:

another guru, Phil Fernandez, there too? I think he was that drunk guy at the bar the whole weekend.

LOL. I got to keep the tradition goin’, after all.


My Thoughts Exactly - Posted by Bill K. (AZ)

Posted by Bill K. (AZ) on March 23, 2000 at 20:30:48:


I was trying to figure out how to write what you just captured in this post. Something informative and funny.


Bill K. (AZ)

Re: Carleton Sheets & Other Gurus at the Creonline Convention - Posted by Paul G

Posted by Paul G on March 24, 2000 at 21:37:22:

ON THAT. - Posted by Rich

Posted by Rich on March 26, 2000 at 10:33:56:


You’ve got it all backwards - Posted by Jeanne

Posted by Jeanne on March 24, 2000 at 16:08:19:


John Behle is correct. Newsgroup II was formed so that all of the people asking, “Will Carleton Sheets work in Des Moines?” could have their forum and Newsgroup I would be for serious Real Estate Investing discussion.


Gurus and garages - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on March 24, 2000 at 24:31:06:

Bottom line is newsgroup 2 exists because thousands of Sheets students and infomercial watchers wandering around in a daze cluttered this newsgroup all day long with questions about Sheets.

The orphan newsgroup exists to redirect the ongoing “is Sheets any good?” questions away from the shaking and moving that goes on in this newsgroup and the Cash Flow newsgroup.

Being on an infomercial no more makes someone a “Guru” than sleeping in a cage at the zoo will turn someone into an Emu. Or… sleeping in the garage will make someone a car.

The king of infomercials years ago was Ed Beckley. He pressed me real hard and offered me 50 grand just to do an infomercial for him. I declined. At one time he had several hundred people just maning the phones for refund requests. He went to prison because of those refunds.

Paul Simon became the next king. Where is he? Flipping burgers or??? Was it him or Richard Powellson (another one of these multi-mega-billionaires that did an infomercial) that did the OJ video? By the way his DR. was from a mail order diploma school in California.

Gary Cochrane? He did lots of informercials. He trains dogs now. I had a great time picking up office furniture and other items at his bankruptcy sale.

Of course, there are many, many more fabulous success stories out there too. And lest we forget - at one time William McCorkle had the most infomercials on TV.

Sheets must have some substance to have survived for so long. But… the course is extremely general and basic. It has to be to be marketed to the masses.

The response of most Sheets students is that they got their start there, but that their success came from learning more. Many from the people at this site.

TV stations don’t qualify someone financially before accepting their advertising dollars. Frankly I’ve never wanted to be a household name or sell tens of thousands of courses. I like doing what I teach more than teaching it.

At the same time, I have a very strong aversion to someone putting my course on the shelf - and not doing anything with it. There’s some people that teach an extremely basic watered down, impractical course on paper - for many thousands. They may not care if their courses stay on someone’s shelf.

One was walking along talking to his seminar coordinator at the hotel one day. As his coordinator was relating to him the situation with some of the disgruntled students that already wanted refunds, his comment was “screw them - we’ve got their money”. He really had a problem after that because he was walking by an outside restaurant where many of his students were eating.

Don’t kid yourself - they make millions off of the infomercials. It has no reflection on their experience, intelligence, net worth or what they have to offer to students. MANY times there is an inverse relationship between cost and value.

Re: Okay, but…you missed the point - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on March 23, 2000 at 22:05:57:

I dont know how much property Sheets has bought, doesnt matter. Seems to me your equating being on television marketing courses to the masses with Guru status.

What is your definition of Guru?

Guess, if you followed sheets well you could learn how to market your courses.

From what I haved he has a good basic course that he markets to the masses. As a friend (Robert K) recently told me if you want to make alot of money you have to go to the market and feel their pain, and then solve that problem. Sheets is good at feeling the pain and has supplied a way to a dream.

Does he Invest? I dont Know? Does he understand Business? Dont Know? Is he a good marketer? Absolutely? Does he really know RE? Couldn’t tell ya?

But, I promise the people mentioned have made more than enough money, They (the players mentioned) arent in it for the Money, their in it for the Game.

Another person once told me quit worrying about what everyone else is doing, Quit worrying about who is the King, Quit worrying about who is really doing deals, and get out there and worry about what YOUR doing?

David Alexander

Re: Okay, but…you missed the point - Posted by Joe Hardy

Posted by Joe Hardy on March 23, 2000 at 22:51:10:

If I may add my 2 cents I own the Sheets course and I also own a book by Andrew McLean “Investing in real estate” cost me all of 17.00 and it was, in my opinion, a much wiser purchase.
I don’t have to tell you how much money I would have saved if I had discovered this book first.