Posted by JohnBoy on January 16, 2001 at 16:09:35:
LOL
Maybe he’s waiting for your next 4th of July thing to sober himself up so he can complete the job! LOL
COMPLETION DATES AND MONEY - Posted by Cork Horner
Posted by Cork Horner on January 15, 2001 at 09:42:42:
HELLO creol’ers, As a former contractor of 40
years in repair, remodelling and new constuction I
am continually amazed at the number of posts I see
about contractor horror stories around completing
the work.
Frankly, I cannot see what gets in the way of
simply putting all issues in writing in a contract
of some kind even if it is on toilet paper or a
business card.
It seems to be the most common complaint that ’
contractors don’t finish the work’. Being on both
sides of the fence, there are a lot of reasons that
contribute to this ’ problem’. I will not defend
contractors who do not complete the work as a
reasonable activity, however I can tell you
speaking as a former contractor that customers are
sometimes their own worst enemy. Money can be a
big source of distress for all parties.
My opinion? as Terry Vaughan stated so elegantly
at the Lenders Workshop in Nov that the best
communicators are the most successful in life.
Man, that is so right on I can’t even come up with
would be next best in correctness.
it has been my experiences in ALL of my situations
that resulted in devastating real estate endeavors
and other activites that it is and was the failure
of complete communication and we need to look in
the mirror on that one.
Well folks, let the flames begin? ;-]
Re: COMPLETION DATES AND MONEY - Posted by JPiper
Posted by JPiper on January 16, 2001 at 01:23:16:
What?s the point of this post Cork???
Sounds like it?s right out of the Dale Carnegie School of Contracting. If we just communicate better with our contractors everything will be fine???
Frankly Cork, I find my best communication with contractors takes place when they?re part way through the job and I haven?t paid a dime yet. MONEY controls Cork, and if you let the contractor get ahead of you on the money, no amount of communication or writing on napkins is going to help you out.
JPiper
Re: COMPLETION DATES AND MONEY - Posted by Cork Horner
Posted by Cork Horner on January 16, 2001 at 08:17:50:
Hello J Piper–the point of the post is that many find that their projects don’t get completed when they wanted them to or thought they would because ’ their contractor’ didn’t finish by the completion date because it was only verbal. No written dates. Can you agree that written agreements go a long way as to what is the completion date?
Yes, thank you for noticing that I am a Dale Carnegie graduate. A little friends and influencing people can go a long way in any business, don’t yout think?
Yes, ’ the need for money’ on the part of the contractor [ or others] tends to " open up a dialogue’ known as communication.
In my opinion, a lot of communication goes a long way to avoid distressing events including completion dates.
In my book of equality, people who perform as expected and act fairly , deserve to be paid as work progresses as spelled out in agreements. Like construction draws for example which is considered an everyday ’ norm’ by lenders.
Frankly, with only 40 years in contracting and building, in looking back it has always been a source of confusion when agreements are not in writing. Even then there can be disputes.
Shall we meet at the corner bar to discuss this further? ;-]
Re: COMPLETION DATES AND MONEY - Posted by JPiper
Posted by JPiper on January 16, 2001 at 09:23:27:
Cork:
You say: ?the point of the post is that many find that their projects don’t get completed when they wanted them to or thought they would because ’ their contractor’ didn’t finish by the completion date because it was only verbal. No written dates. Can you agree that written agreements go a long way as to what is the completion date??
I can?t answer whether most people get things in writing or not. Certainly an agreement with a contractor should be in writing, to include a completion date and other more important clauses (like what happens when he doesn?t finish by the completion date). BUT, to assume that a written agreement goes along way toward getting your work completed BY the completion date in my opinion is a fairy tale. All a written agreement can do is DEFINE the completion date. It can?t make a contractor FINISH. Now there might be some legitimate reasons for a completion date not to be met?.like numerous change orders. But more often, completion dates are not met because the contractor is out doing other work, busy not showing up for your job, out bidding on other jobs, drunk and laying around the house, etc etc.
You say: ?Yes, thank you for noticing that I am a Dale Carnegie graduate. A little friends and influencing people can go a long way in any business, don’t yout think??
No, I don?t think Dale Carnegie techniques do any good with contractors. By the way, I graduated from it myself about 30 years ago or so.
You say: ?In my opinion, a lot of communication goes a long way to avoid distressing events including completion dates.?
Again, I don?t think communication does anything toward get your job done on time. Communication might set out your expectations clearly, but it won?t get the job done. Only the contractor can get the job done, and he can only get it done if he?s on the job and working. Whether that will be the case is going to have to do with the contractors sense of responsibility (something many contractors are woefully lacking in), and how well YOU are controlling the money.
You say: ?In my book of equality, people who perform as expected and act fairly , deserve to be paid as work progresses as spelled out in agreements. Like construction draws for example which is considered an everyday ’ norm’ by lenders.?
I think that contractors should be paid according to your agreement. But a lot of thought better go into the agreement beforehand. For example, a $1000 job that is going to take one week, if you pay a little everyday so that you can be ?equal?, you have opened yourself up. If the contractor bails out midweek, you theoretically are ?even?. But now you?re back out looking for a contractor, your job is delayed, and whether you can find a guy who will come back in and finish a job for $400 is questionable.
You need to holdback money sufficiently to act as a hammer, to keep the contractor working toward finishing by the completion date. ?Equality? is a fine concept, it just doesn?t work with contractors.
We haven?t even talked about whether the work is incompetent?.in which case ANYTHING you paid will be lost when you have to do the job over.
As far as the corner bar Cork, I invited a contractor to a 4th of July thing, I provided the beer. The beer set him off on an alcoholic binge, such that he wasn?t at the job for a week. Matter of fact, that job still sits incomplete?.completion date long forgotten. Maybe next spring. Meanwhile, be happy to have a beer at the convention if you show up.
JPiper