Posted by Houserookie on July 11, 2002 at 12:05:17:
Yes that sounds nice and dandy but I’m not a cookie cutter type person. I like to know what I’m cutting into and if the cookie cutter system is doing what I can or it should.
Surely you can take an hour out of your busy selling time to study some laws that might effect your business.
Austin
LAND TRUSTS ARE ILLEAGAL, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL - Posted by bryan
Posted by bryan on July 10, 2002 at 14:29:54:
OK, OK, I just said that because I knew it would get alot of traffic to my question from people who wanted to argue about subject to deals. Fact is that I want to do one myself so that should answer any questions about how I feel about their legality.
Now that you’re here, if you could let me know, I want to create a land trust for a subject to deal and don’t know how. I wonder is there a form available somwhere which could be used and notarized to create a trust or must I go to an attourney?
Seriously, any help is greatly appreciated!
Re: LAND TRUSTS ARE ILLEAGAL, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL - Posted by JohnBoy
Posted by JohnBoy on July 11, 2002 at 09:48:34:
There is a whole lot more involved doing subject to deals than just using a land trust. If you don’t fully understand the way to properly structure these and fully understand ALL the forms you need to use then you NEED to get a good course on the subject that goes into all the details on properly structuring these and all the proper forms you need to be using.
If you can’t buy a course until later and by having to wait until later to do so…then DO NOT DO THIS DEAL!!!
Besides, if you can’t swing a few hundred to buy a course right now, then the LAST thing you need to be doing is subject to deals! YOU DON’T HAVE ANY RESERVES ON HAND TO COVER YOUR ASS IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG!!!
BEFORE you get into doing subject to deals you need to have plenty of CASH RESERVES on hand or you can get into big trouble!
I strongly recommend having a LEAST 6 months of payments in reserves before getting into any type of deals that require you to remain in the middle. And all subject to deals require you to remain in the middle! You can’t afford to even THINK about actually doing one of these until AFTER you have the CASH on hand that you can set aside to keep in reserves!
You say you will have $19k coming on a deal you will be assigning. GREAT! That will give you a good start as long as you can put that money aside and keep it for reserves! But until that deal closes and you actually have that $19k profit in your hands, DO NOT just assume that you will have that money! There are way to many things that can go wrong that can kill a deal where things won’t work out as planned. So don’t count your chickens before they hatch! WAIT until after the fat lady sings when you actually have that $19k cash in your hands! THEN, and ONLY THEN, consider doing a subject to deal!
What if your buyer ends up being a dead beat and can’t pay??? If you can’t swing $400 on a good course now, then HOW would you swing $1,000 or more every month to cover the payments on a property you take subject to should your buyer stop paying you??? HOW would you cover paying an attorney just to get them out of the property if you had to? If they trashed the property in the meantime HOW would you pay to get the property ready for another buyer? HOW would you even cover the few hundred just to advertise to find a buyer??? You say you can’t even pay for a good course!!!
The best advice I can give you on this is DO NOT DO ANY SUBJECT TO DEALS UNTIL AFTER YOU HAVE ENOUGH CASH RESERVES ON HAND!!!
Re: LAND TRUSTS ARE ILLEAGAL, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL - Posted by Bryan
Posted by Bryan on July 10, 2002 at 17:08:58:
Wow, guys, great info. I really appreciate the attitudes you guys have about helping newbies, even if it is un-american!
P.S. I was asking for resources to find forms available online or otherwise that were free. I was not asking anyone to send me a form that they paid for. Or at least I didn’t intend to…
Re: LAND TRUSTS ARE ILLEAGAL, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL - Posted by ScottS
Posted by ScottS on July 10, 2002 at 14:48:24:
Bryan,
For way less then the price you’ll pay an uninformed attorney to construct your trust you can purchase a course by William Bronchick which will show you the ins and outs of how to do it and you can then do it over and over. That’s the route I would investigate.
Good Luck
ScottS
Re: LAND TRUSTS ARE ILLEAGAL, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL - Posted by Bryan
Posted by Bryan on July 10, 2002 at 15:15:27:
Thanks for your reply and thanks for putting up w/ my sense of humer ( or lack therof )
I fully intend to invest in about half a dozen courses as soon as I’m able to flip my first deal ( I have a running list ) but unfortunately my first deal doesn’t close until the 22nd. ( Assignment of option to purchase to new buyer, $19k profit minus cost of time ) Unfortunately the opportunity to take one particular property subject to will vanish well before then and the only way I can complete the transaction is to create a land trust and avoid the due on sale clause. I take it from your response that there are resources available to help me create a trust w/out the aid of a lawyer, if I promise with sugar and a cherry on top that I will purchase the course from Bronchik ( I really will! ) is there anyone out there who could point me to a source for the trust documents now?
LAND TRUSTS ARE ILLEAGAL, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL - Posted by jeff
Posted by jeff on July 10, 2002 at 15:50:28:
tie the property up in contract and set the purchase date for august 10th. this gives you a couple weeks or more to get yor land trust set up and take the property subject to. this arrangement will prevent this deal from slipping away while you wait on another one to close.
im not saying you can learn everything about land trusts in 2 weeks, but it gives yuo time to get your stuff together and have a lawyer do it for the first time after you collect your cash to pay the attorney with from the other deal. having an attorney on your first one is always a good iea even if you have the forms, who knows if those forms are 100% legal in your state? and tieing it up is better than just letting it slip away because of a 2 week hold up.
Re: LAND TRUSTS ARE ILLEAGAL, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL - Posted by Joe
Posted by Joe on July 10, 2002 at 15:29:52:
If this deal you’d be missing out on will be flipped within a month or two, you could always forego the land trust. Have them sign a warranty deed to you. Then sell the property. The lender will probably not even find-out ownership changed hands until your end buyer pays them off. Even if they did find-out and decided to exercise the DOS clause it would take longer than two months to do it. But you’d have to find a lender that didn’t care about seasoning, which could be a challenge.
Yes, there’s a risk doing it this way. But it’s bad form asking for free documents someone else had to pay their hard earned money to get.
Good, FREE trust forms! - Posted by John Merchant,JD
Posted by John Merchant,JD on July 10, 2002 at 16:08:01:
Guys, your local law library, at the courthouse nearest you, has any number of legal form books, and this is where lawyers get their forms…nobody sits down these days with a blank sheet of paper and just starts in!
So go read, and help yourself to any forms therein, and you’ll find hundreds of trust forms, and hundreds of separate clauses and paragraphs which you can include, as they may fit your needs. And the library will have a copy machine right there that’s primarily used by lawyers to copy library material.
By the way, any legal form book is always fair game for copying and use by any individual who may want…you need to understand and realize that these form books are, themselves, compilations and collections of earlier forms, gathered from individual lawyers over the years.
Nothing about trusts or their use is recent or original, and as I can recall, trusts have probably been in steady use since not long after William the Conquerer got to England in 1066.
Oh,when you get to the law library, just ask the law librarian or attendant to point out to where the form books, or sets, are…and you’ll want to see CJS Forms, Am Jur Forms, and any specialized will and trust form books they may have…and show you also where the copy machine is, and you’re all set.
Re: Good, FREE trust forms! - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on July 10, 2002 at 16:30:08:
John Merchant----------------
There you go, doing it again. Giving out good advice for free. Aren’t you worried that your local bar association will blackball you as being UnAmerican? Or at least UnLawyerLike?
Why haven’t I seen this good advice before? Thank you.
Good InvestingRon Starr**
same here - Posted by jeff
Posted by jeff on July 10, 2002 at 17:18:09:
thats exactly what i was wondering Ron, why is this the first time i ever heard of this law library stuff?
and to the best of my knowledge, i ahve never seen a law library in my courthouse either. have i missed it, or is my town so small (population 1800) that we cant have anything nice? LOL
Courthouse Law Library - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on July 10, 2002 at 20:20:30:
Jeff------------
I think you have put your finger on it. Small county population, small library.
When I visited my relatives in Mullen, Nebraska, population around 650, I studied the NE tax code at the law library. It was in an office of somebody in the courthouse. It was very small. Only a few hundred volumes. But they had the state statutes.
So, give it a try. Check your phone book, call the court house. If you can’t find what you want there, you may have to go over to some larger town. Or, buy the form books and have your own law library. I have one in my dining room cabinet. Number of volumes: fewer than 30.
Good InvestingRon Starr***
Re: same here - Posted by Houserookie
Posted by Houserookie on July 10, 2002 at 17:48:06:
Either that or try a local law school library.
Works just as good.
Austin
Well if you’ve got the time… - Posted by Heidi W
Posted by Heidi W on July 11, 2002 at 01:04:31:
It may make sense to spend money on a ready to go system - rather than spend valuable selling time in the law library…
just something to think about
Re: Well if you’ve got the time… - Posted by Houserookie
Posted by Houserookie on July 11, 2002 at 12:07:34:
Btw…I mentioned school law libraries because they have the same book of legal forms and sets that are avialable at courtroom libraries.