My Take on the Mooch Killer Slime Bag Thread - Posted by Dirk Roach

Posted by Daniel Lubell on February 11, 2000 at 18:52:40:


Well, here it is, Friday night, and you must be psychic! I actually tried to call you when this e-mail came in to see if I was really dialing the “psychic Jim Piper” line.

Rick and I had just gotten done discussing how we had to take away this fellow’s property not twenty minutes ago!

So, that is life in the big City, I suppose. I have put some charcoal on the barbeque, and I guess Rick and I are going to roast up a pound of flesh. I expect some retribution from this guy, so we will need to take pictures of the property, in case he should try and damage it.

This is the worst part of this business, but when someone repeatedly promises to do something and they just don’t, what else can you do? On paper, we will make out better, but it still is the worst part of the business.

Dan Lubell

My Take on the Mooch Killer Slime Bag Thread - Posted by Dirk Roach

Posted by Dirk Roach on February 10, 2000 at 04:02:18:

Hello everyone,
I’m sure that last week we all were amazed at the mooch killer thread. I know at first I was sitting back, going hey I deal with bad credit folks on my little mobile home deals all the time. What in the world is Ed Garcia talking about.
But you know I have been thinking about it.
I know and am fortunate to be very good friends with Ed. Enough to know that man certainly knows what he talking about. I guess that’s why I was confused.

Anyhow I get a lot of emails and phone calls and lunch dates and what have you from new people looking for advice or motivation or whatever. And the thing is I don’t have a course and I don’t do seminars.

I can only imagine the emails etc. that Ed gets. I mean the guy knows financing, he is like the Terminator when it comes to getting a deal down.

Now in the post there was newbie who had come across a supposedly more sophisticated player who was going to show this guy how the game works etc.

I have to agree with Ed, I would be suspect too. Mainly because I have been around (in a very limited capacity) but I have reached the level of doing enough deals that the sharks start calling and you know what if your not careful you can be swallowed up.
Real World business is not always nice and there are people in it who are not always nice.

Of course I think (and folks this is only my opinion) that Ed may have been worried that the newbie was going to go down a path that didn’t he really need to be going down.

Any of us out here that do get a lot of inquires for advice and what have you, know that so often people only start crying for help only after they have gotten themselves into jam.

Now I’m not saying that this guy was going to get himself into a jam, I’m just saying that it gets frustrating when you get these calls again and again. I think that Ed was maybe trying to point out some options on a possible take on the situation.

Ed I think I was doing one of the most valuable things that he taught me, look at the deal, the investor, the situation, from as many different angles as possible.

Anyhow in retrospect that was my take on the thread,
Think I’ll go a deal now,

Re: Ther Real Story… - Posted by Ed Garcia

Posted by Ed Garcia on February 10, 2000 at 10:45:04:


You never even called me. I had heard that you were troubled about my image being hurt
in that exchange, as a matter of fact you did call me but never let me know how you felt.
We just talked about the mobile home in San Bernardino.

I thank you for this post to try to defend me, it just shows what kind of guy you are.
I have to admit that series of post got out of hand, and if you didn’t follow each one in
sequence, the exchange was very believable. It was meant to be believable.

Before I tell you what really happened, I want everybody to know that there are two sides
to every story, and each side can have validity. That’s why when I was defending the
other side it was so believable.

Another thing I like you folks to know was that the exchange between me and Mr. Alcorn
was real. I have since called and apologized to Ray, because I know he had no idea of
what I was doing just like most of you. The only one that knew what was happening was
me and that old cagey cat that goes by the name of JPiper.

And speaking of Piper, if ever you see me and Mr. Piper go through an exchange, know
up front it’s for fun.

Phil Fernandez, who I think usually is in tune with my thinking and style, had asked me,
Ed what are you smoking.

Here is my answer to Phil, and now to you.


I started out answering David’s post about mentoring. The subject matter was mentoring.

David’s concern was, is the guy who supposedly is going to be his mentor trust worthy.
I could tell that the guy who was suppose to mentor David had another itinerary. This guy
was not an investor if you take notice.

I tell David in my post,

This guy is not just trying to mentor you. If he were, he would have not told you to
forget about lease options. This guy is willing to teach you the business from his stand
point, and use you to as an employee.

His stand point: Is what I call a MOOCH KILLER.

Now Phil, A Mooch Killer, is a term that’s been around for at least 33 years that I know of.
It’s an old finance term referencing sales people taking advantage of and targeting people
who would normally not be able to qualify for a loan. The slanderous term Mooch if you look
it up in the dictionary means to get things with out paying. To mooch a cigarette. There are
other definitions, but you’ve got the idea.

At this point, David strikes me as someone who is trying to learn the business, and may be
a little naive due to lack of experience. I could tell that he didn’t trust his so called new
mentor, and that’s why he was coming to us for help. This was later confirmed if you read
the post that David posted later today. As a matter of fact the part where I referred to the guy
who was going to mentor David as a SLIM BAG, was also confirmed in David’s second

When I’m talking in the post that you’re referencing. I’m talking to David, knowing that
this is all new to him.

I think much to much was made out of the negative comments that I made when taken
out of context.

For starters, this guy is not a investor like us.

This whole string is a Jim Piper fluke.

It started out with me answering a posting that David posted trying to make him aware
of that, even with aggressive sales people who may not be honorable, that a lesson can
still be learned.

And more or less, rather than be afraid of them, learn from them, and pick their brain.
Jim Piper, pick up on the negative aspect of my posting and ran with it.

Piper saw the posting, took the information out of context and attacked me.
Piper knew once I take a stance I won’t back down. I on the other hand, realizing what Jim
was doing to me and decided to take the stance that Jim dealt me and support it just for fun.

I’ll tell you Phil, it’s not easy dodging bullets from everybody when your taking the side of
an issue that you don’t even believe in. I knew I was going against the grain and fighting a
unpopular position, but I didn’t care. For people like yourself who have seen me on this
site for the past 2 ½ years you should have known something was up. That certainly not the
Ed Garcia that you know.

I gave it my best shot Phil, and 2 times challenged Piper and tried to get him to trade sides
with me. But he wouldn’t do it.( the rat) If you follow the post, you can see where I called Piper
out and realize what he is doing to me.

Once Piper challenged me, on my answering post I said to him,

Well Mr. Piper, I think I touched a nerve.

Now Jim, you know what I think of you, and so with that in mind I want you to know
that this posting is not about you. I also know that you’ve been dying, I repeat dying,
to get into a verbal exchange with me and you know it. Even though were the best
of friends, you know you’ve been waiting for me. Just wanting to get a piece of old
Garcia. Piper you love a good go around, and I stimulate you because you know I’m a
worthy opponent. You’re an old warrior with out a battle. I can see the smile on your face
as you’re are reading this.

So with that in mind, I say lets get it on.

When I talked to Jim by phone, he said that when he saw the above statement, he had to call
his wife Concetta, over to the computer and said, look Concetta, Ed knows what I’m doing.
As a matter of fact, Piper even confirmed the smile on his face at the time this was happening.

He also confessed that he had been waiting for the right moment to ambush me.

The bad part of this is, I don’t think Jim is satisfied doing this just once.

Mean while I’m considering joining a convent.

But bottom line, is the whole thing was for fun Phil,

Ed Garcia

Re: My Take on the Mooch Killer Slime Bag Thread - Posted by Daniel Lubell

Posted by Daniel Lubell on February 10, 2000 at 10:38:53:

I was recently at a convention of real estate investors who all had their own “best” methods of doing deals. The funny thing was, in spite of some really bad advice that was given out, these people were all still making money. That is precisely why this is such a good business. You can really screw things up and still make money in spite of yourself!

Which is precisely why both Mr. Piper and Mr. Garcia might both be partly correct.

To Mr. Piper’s credit, I am sure he does not “stick it to the buyer” as hard as he possibly can. He probably does not do so because:
A. It is bad business
B. Jim Piper is already successful and does not have to scoop up every morsel of profit.

To Mr. Garcia’s credit, the answer is yes, owner financing does tend to cost the buyer more money.
This is a marketplace where such things are the rule, and so the risky buyer will pay “what the market will bear”.

Having said that, I think it is the kind of business that draws people to the center. In other words, it makes people a little kinder, because they can afford to be kinder. Here is a real life example that just happened to me.

I had arranged some money for a guy on a lease option basis, and I took two of his homes as collateral. He did not pay, we went to court and the judge confirmed that both properties were now ours. If I took both houses back in leau of his payments, I would gain by about $25,000.00. On the other hand, he asked if he could have till Friday to pay. Mind you, we did not HAVE to do this, we already leagally took away his property (in court). But we figured, what the heck, and my partner, Rick Vesole, gave him till Friday.
If he pays, great. I am happy. I don’t need to take a pound of flesh. If he does not pay, I will start up the barbeque for that pound of flesh.

This is not the first time we have been this nice. It is just a question of being fair and the luxury of making enough money to afford to do so.

So, are there sharks in the water? Sure. But the successful ones tend to be nicer sharks. They will only take a leg, not an arm and a leg. Are they doing good things for people?

Well, to quote Bill Zechendorf, one of the most famous and successful real estate investors of all time, “I would rather be alive at 18% then dead at 6%”.

Dan Lubell

Sure HOPE that newbie did steer clear of that ‘sophisticated’ player… - Posted by SusanL.–FL

Posted by SusanL.–FL on February 10, 2000 at 09:39:47:

It made me SHUDDER to think that that newbie was still contemplating doing business with the guy!

Any time I have to scratch my head and do a ‘hmmmmmm?’ (during a deal) or get that ‘funny’ feeling that things are not Kosher, I walk away. If it doesn’t ‘smell’ right, it probably isn’t. (I K-N-O-W I’m not smart enuf to stay two jumps ahead of a shyster.)

I’ve already proven that to myself!! :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Who cares? It’s old business now. (NT) - Posted by W.C.

Posted by W.C. on February 10, 2000 at 08:43:35:


This is why… - Posted by Brandi_TX

Posted by Brandi_TX on February 11, 2000 at 16:39:46:

…I read the board from the bottom up! LOL, I followed along and was quite entertained.

As to the damage to your reputation… maybe a nice frivolous lawsuit is in order? He he he.

Anyway, no damage done in my eyes, see you in Atlanta.


The thread made good reading… - Posted by Chris (FL)

Posted by Chris (FL) on February 11, 2000 at 10:13:44:

similar to the contract for deed vs L/O thread from a few months ago.

Re: Ther Real Story… - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on February 10, 2000 at 18:01:52:

Hey Ed,

You know we do have alot of fun on this board don’t we. I’m looking forward to your talk on financing at the convention.

See ya in two weeks.

Re: My Take on the Mooch Killer Slime Bag Thread - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on February 11, 2000 at 18:24:44:

So how’s the barbeque this evening?


Yes, good Post… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on February 10, 2000 at 23:37:42:

and good to see your still around.

David Alexander

Dan That Was A Super Post nt - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on February 10, 2000 at 18:10:18:


Nice story, Dan! (nt) - Posted by SusanL.–FL

Posted by SusanL.–FL on February 10, 2000 at 13:15:07:


Hesitation is a “no” vote - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on February 10, 2000 at 11:24:48:

I always try to “notice” when I am hesitant about dealing with someone. I’ve learned that that is a “no” vote and I need to pay some attention.

I had one recently that was interesting. I wasn’t sure myself why I was having such a problem getting a deal done with a certain real estate agent.

He would give me incomplete information and then begin pressing for an answer. I finally became a little irritated and found out he was purposely keeping information back because he had fears about “commission-dectomies”.

We got past that and then explored a deal that made no sense - until I found out he had loaned the owner money and would get it back if I bailed the owner out of foreclosure (of course that came out later).

He was trying to sell me on a deal while I was doing my last 5 day training in Salt Lake. It was interesting that the group picked up the same type of “vibes” from him that I had.

Then he topped it off when he made an off hand comment to me indicating he had little concern for any of the parties in the transaction (like me as the investor). His words were: “You know me John, I’m just a $lut. I’ll do anything for money.” Those were his words, not mine.

YET, it did confirm why there was a hesitation in working with him.

“Gut” feelings do have place in business. Not in place of “due-diligence”, but as a caution to investigate further and in some cases back out even if you can’t totally elaborate “why”.

I have a friend that shared how he let a great deal of pressure and influence of others sway his decision to go against his gut feeling. He paid a huge price as he went on to become the “Edsel” dealer for Utah.