OK I Just have to vent ... - Posted by Redline

Posted by Jack on April 09, 2006 at 10:39:14:

Your right you shouldn’t worry. You get paid either way.

OK I Just have to vent … - Posted by Redline

Posted by Redline on April 07, 2006 at 19:23:00:

I’ve been following up with a property in tax foreclosure and just got off the phone with one of the heirs. There are 5 of them.

Long story short, mom and dad passed a long time ago and the house is sitting there boarded up and still in their name. The dirt is worth around $200k plus the bulldozer cost. It’s been paid in full for about 20 years but nobody’s been paying the taxes for the last 5 years.

The tax foreclosure is about 2 months away and they are content to do nothing. This was my 6th call to try to get them to do SOMETHING. I’ve talked to 3 of the heirs. They are all equally brain dead. The last call was the best, by far. The guy started giving me grief about what I was going to offer, and if it a “fair market offer” and what did I stand to gain in the deal.

LOL …

Now mind you, this guy is about to get a big fat ZERO in about 2 months. He and the family have done absolutely NOTHING about it and they don’t seem to care but he wants to make sure I am giving him a fair deal.

He said “call me when you want to make me a serious offer” then hung up the phone … LMAO …

I could surely go on about this, but I have to go now and put my head through a wall.

Just when I think I’ve seen it all …

RL

Red, today the situation is different… - Posted by David Krulac

Posted by David Krulac on April 09, 2006 at 06:44:33:

  1. the heirs probably will get a lot more than a big fat zero. at the tax auctions that I’ve been to recently, bidders have come out of the woodwork and as far as 1,000 miles away to bid up property often to more than FMV. they have plenty of cash and are bidding sight unseen and using assessment values on the internet as their guide. many will get burnt but the appreciating market can bail out some of the most ridiculous.

  2. the former owners could get a windfall and could get more than you’re offering considering the crazed bidders.

  3. all you really need is one of the heirs to give you a quit claim deed. try dealing with the least brain dead of the crew. get the deed record the deed, pay the back taxes and either deal with the other two from your new position of strength or start a partition suit.

  4. good luck

Re: OK I Just have to vent … - Posted by ken in sc

Posted by ken in sc on April 08, 2006 at 16:13:45:

I agree with both JT and Anne. Hard to believe, isn’t it!

First, you keep trying to find the two others. Next, you do something wild like JT’s idea to stay in touch with the others.

You just need one interest to be a player. This guy who expects to make 200K, how about the look on his face when you tell him you have an interest in the property and are about to pay the taxes. It would be sweet. Of course, you might be convinced to NOT pay the taxes for a check made out to Redline. Just a small check, I am sure :slight_smile:

Ken

Me too… - Posted by Marc Donovan

Posted by Marc Donovan on April 08, 2006 at 16:12:37:

Had a deal with a Habitat for Humanity foreclosure owner. The trick with these is that HFH has first right of refusal so you have to get very creative. Had an agreement to give the homeowner 30K. As I was going over to sign the deal I get a call from some Realtor screaming at me, saying I was taking advantage, threatening to call the police for harrasment, saying that she was going to list the property. I told her that she could not sell the property because HFH had first right of refusal. There was a long silence. Then more screaming - I just hung up. I called the home owner and explained that if she listed it, there was no way it would get sold before the auction (2 weeks) and that her realtor has no idea how to get around the first right of refusal. She decided to go with the realtor instead of me. I called the foreclosing attorney and he said they had a buyer - I thought, amazing! She sold it - good for her. I just checked title, its now owned by HFH and she did not get a dime. That realtor did get a listing though… Just shake the head and go to the next deal…

I can relate - Posted by Anne_ND

Posted by Anne_ND on April 08, 2006 at 14:13:12:

I have about five lots in a similar situation- I found the heirs and they will not sell. They want the city to take the property rather than sell it themselves. I’ve been incredibly frustrated by this, but it also means that the tens of other investors who are swarming this neighborhood are having the same problem. I’m looking for a way to distinguish myself from the other investors, and I like JT’s idea.

In my situation the problem isn’t that the heirs are stupid so much as that they are afraid. Afraid and angry. They know they’ve been ignoring the tax bills for the last 10 years, and they think this is a trick to get them to pay the taxman instead of the fact that they’ll actually come out ahead.

It sounds like if you can get just one of the heirs to see it your way, you may have an in. I suggest you keep trying to reach the other 2 heirs.

Anne

Re: OK I Just have to vent … - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on April 08, 2006 at 13:50:27:

Now that the venting is aside, where’s your serious offer?

You’re not playing that not-naming-your-price-first game, are you?
Bad move, IMO. These are people that let things go AND aren’t that
concerned. There are lots of people that don’t mind getting zero on
principal–the principal being that zero for them is better than
anything for you.

That being said, where I am properties like that most often get
redeemed by the one heir that always ends up taking care of things like
that. So, who was taking care of business until five years ago? What
happened five years ago that the taxes stopped getting paid?

If it were me I’d call them back with a serious offer. Kristine

Re: OK I Just have to vent … - Posted by Natalie-VA

Posted by Natalie-VA on April 08, 2006 at 10:59:22:

Redline,

Is it possible that the heirs won’t end up with nothing? I don’t know didly about tax foreclosures, but with a lender foreclosure the overage goes to the owners. Wouldn’t a 200k property get bid up somewhere between 100 and 150k?

–Natalie

Start mailing them a Dollar a Day - Posted by JT-IN

Posted by JT-IN on April 08, 2006 at 09:49:27:

Yep… put a crisp one dollar bill in anvelope everyday, addressed to one or more of the heirs with a note that says, “Waiting to pay you the rest of the money in a lump sum, but we need to finalize the terms first”. Scatter your mailings amongst the heirs, they will talk surely.

So let’s say that you mail them 50 or 100 bucks over the next few months… Do you think that they may eventually say, maybe we better talk to this mad-man…? Maybe not, but I guarantee you your approach will be far more unique than anyone else that is contacting them…

Just an idea that may work… Surely you have done crazier things, Redline.

JT-IN

Re: OK I Just have to vent … - Posted by DaveD (WI)

Posted by DaveD (WI) on April 08, 2006 at 08:25:39:

It’s an interesting attitude. "If I lose it, I lose it… but if you want to buy it, it needs to be at FMV. It’s the hallmark of folks in deeeeep denial. Maybe they are just dense. Or, maybe you need to do a better job of showing them where the bodies are buried. You need to find another way to ring their bell.

Remember the concept of compression? With two months to run, they haven’t reached that point yet, but make sure they remember how to contact you. Eventually they will. Or, perhaps not.

Is there another way for you to get your foot in the door? Where there is a tax lien, there may be other liens and judgements as well.

SW, SW, SW, N** - Posted by Jimmy

Posted by Jimmy on April 08, 2006 at 08:23:52:

remember the old sales cliche" Some Will, Some Won’t, So What, Next.

**but, looking over your facts, here are a couple of things to think about:

  1. if property is still in names of dead parents, these kids cannot give you title. don’t waste your time with them. if you go back through the archives here, you will see this issue addressed almost weekly for the past 2 years.

  2. there are a handfull of ways to get title to a property like this: (a) a sale by the PR in a probate administration, (b) sn affidavit or other summary procedure available in certain states for certain situations, © a sale by a trustee under a deed of trust aka foreclosure sale, or (d) a sale by a property tax office aka a tax sale.

  3. If you want to open the probate, you are welcome to do so. Unrelated parties can do this if closer relatives do not want the PR job. But don’t expect any bargains. You will be exposed to liability if you sell anything for less than FMV, and will be drawn and quartered if you self-deal.

  4. Best bet. wait for the tax sale. keep an eye on it. now, every state is different. Learn how it works in your area. I have attanded many of these in TX, and purchased 5 or 6 lots. I never see any killer deals. Too many people know about it. But every now and then one slips through a crack.

Re: OK I Just have to vent … - Posted by James Harris

Posted by James Harris on April 08, 2006 at 05:44:35:

Redline, I know what you are talking about. I’vehad two cases that shows a persons, lest’s say “stupidity”. 1. A lady that I know had her house for sale, corner lot, decent size. She wanted $79,000 or $129,000 if she left her “antiques”. After looking the house over, I realized that the house was worth about $50k. The house never sold. It got foreclosed on not too long after and sold after ther thr foreclosure for… get this $28,000. So, to say stupidity runs rampid in America.

Dave, thats just splitting heirs! ;-D(n/t) - Posted by Cathleen

Posted by Cathleen on April 11, 2006 at 08:56:53:

N/T

not in tax foreclosure - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on April 09, 2006 at 13:43:01:

In NJ the tax foreclosure process is a “strict foreclosure” which means NO public sale at the end.
When the court imposed deadline passes without payment, the tax lien matures into final judgment which is recorded as a deed to the property. Redline is right, at that point the owners get ZERO.

Re: Red, today the situation is different… - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on April 09, 2006 at 09:37:12:

#1 is SO correct. I saw a quote from one of the bidders at the recent San Diego auction:

“I guess I better go see what I just bought.”

O.o!!

Re: OK I Just have to vent … - Posted by Redline

Posted by Redline on April 08, 2006 at 17:34:54:

Oh yah, the remaining two are in Poland and don’t have a phone.

RL

Other two heirs… - Posted by Redline

Posted by Redline on April 08, 2006 at 17:23:58:

OK runs down like this:

3rd heir, guy I mentioned:
me: Lets do something here to get you some cash or else none of you will get anything.
him: Ok I won’t get anything but how much are YOU getting?

1st,2nd heir:
me: Let’s do something here so you dont lose the house, and get you some cash. Save it from foreclosure.
them: I don’t understand.
me: Well it’s simple. You’re losing your house and if you don’t do anything it’s gone and you get nothing. If you let me help you, I will get it all done for you. It’ll cost you nothing. When it’s all over, I will give you a fat check for the property.
them: “Wow this is really a tough decision.” (YES THAT’S AN ACTUAL QUOTE)

LMAO …

I do actually think the 2 heirs have serious issues as they also said they didn’t want to talk too much on the phone because the government was probably listening.

… and I’m thinking, if they are listening they’re as dumbfounded as me !!

RL

Yah, and well yah, and well … - Posted by Redline

Posted by Redline on April 08, 2006 at 15:40:53:

Kristine, I know you play alot in this type of area and you’re definitely right but I couldn’t seem to win with this guy.

He was just sarcastic and aggresive from the beginning. He alluded to the fact that other people have called him. Apparently they didn’t get anywhere with him either. It’s like the more people tried to get him to act, the less he wanted to. Sort of like a spoiled child told to eat their vegetables.

The the worst part is, even if I did get him on my side I still have to deal with the lienholder, who I know. There are real specific laws in NJ protecting these types of lienholders. He would definitely challenge my position and not give up without a fight. Who would win? It would depend on the judge that day.

So because of THAT and the trouble I’ve had with the family, I’ve called it quits.

RL

They get NOTHING. - Posted by Redline

Posted by Redline on April 08, 2006 at 15:35:34:

Tax foreclosure is VERY different from mortgage foreclosure, atleast here in NJ.

The lienholder is foreclosing and if he’s paid before final judgement - he gets the property! No auction no nothing. He’s in the drivers seat. And there are very specific laws in NJ protecting these types of lienholders. Not just anyone can pay them off and cancel the foreclosure.

I know the lienholder here. He WILL make $200k on this property. I’ve seen him do it for years now.

RL

Re: OK I Just have to vent … - Posted by DaveD (WI)

Posted by DaveD (WI) on April 08, 2006 at 11:34:18:

It might, but you are not thinking this all the way through, Natalie. Probably hasn’t been probated yet. When the reality sinks in you can envision oh, say FIVE lawyers (plus the probate lawyer) all billing time to “secure their client’s interests.” No, the real beneficiaries will be the lawyers, once again. The clients will get the bone(s). Sigh. :frowning: