Posted by John-Fl on September 06, 2004 at 19:27:23:
Flipper is a dolphin.
Someone who buys low and sells low is called a “wholesaler”.
referral/birddog fees - Posted by gary
Posted by gary on September 04, 2004 at 23:29:02:
Does anyone know how much a birddog gets paid when he finds a deal for an investor. What is the basic referral fee paid and at what time? thanks is advance for your help!
Re: referral/birddog fees - Posted by Ed Copp (OH)
Posted by Ed Copp (OH) on September 05, 2004 at 11:15:35:
There is no basic fee. Tha amount paid is by agreement of the parties, and is usually done on a case by case basis. Be careful not to base the fee on a percentage of the transaction, because that would be considered brokering, and require licensing.
So the question is like asking how high is up. It depends on what the traffic will bear.
Re: referral/birddog fees - Posted by Old Investor
Posted by Old Investor on September 06, 2004 at 15:12:00:
?Be careful not to base the fee on a percentage of the transaction, because that would be considered brokering, and require licensing.?
I don?t think real estate commissions need to be ?percentages?, and therefore it is doubtful that this is a primary, or even a secondary determinant of whether the bird dog is performing a ?real estate act? for the purposes of licensing in virtually any state.
I would believe that the key factor would be whether the bird dog is receiving a ?fee? for any of the considerable number of acts that are considered ?real estate activity? in the state in question.
My guess is that bird dogging falls under the auspices of the ?real estate act? in some, if not most states. Of course, as a practical matter, I?m sure it goes on every day.
Old Investor
Re: referral/birddog fees - Posted by Jeff Sterner
Posted by Jeff Sterner on September 05, 2004 at 12:44:32:
Ed’s got good advice there. Stay away from percentages. In the DC/MD/VA Metro area it’s anywhere from $500 to $3000 depending on the property, profit, and of course as Ed suggested, the traffic. If this dog is bringing you repeat deals treat him/her very well! If not, entice’em with that they could be getting. Money is Motivation for a lot of people out there.
Re: referral/birddog fees - Posted by Rich Hyams
Posted by Rich Hyams on September 05, 2004 at 13:43:58:
I pay $1000 to $2000, more, if its a wild deal, on the first two referals someone brings me. More than double that for further referals. I also give a choice of the refereal fee or a big percentage of the profit, like 25 to 50% on the back end.
I have one bird dog who I just split 25k profit with. I had to come out of pocket with 15k to bring the first current and 4k to buy the homeowners out, flipped it to a rehabber. I owned it for less than four weeks.
The best part???
I never even saw the house!!
This was the third deal this guy brought me, I have learned to trust his eye and judgement on value and repair cost.
Finding deals is the hard part, once someone brings me a third deal, I don’t mind splitting the profit on a flip or paying a major chunk, 25-35% if I do the rehab.
I put NOTHING in writing, I deal with me bird dogs on a handshake and verbal agreement. I pay a ercentage of the profit, not selling or buy price…anyone think I have a serious risk with that agent thing?
Re: Another thing - Posted by Ed Copp (OH)
Posted by Ed Copp (OH) on September 05, 2004 at 13:33:10:
Do not hesitate to ask for what your deal is worth. If there is $30,000 worth of profit in a deal what would be wrong with the bird dog getting say $20,000. If it was not for the bird dog the end buyer would not have even known about the deal. It is all about gathering information, and then properly marketing that information.
Re: referral/birddog fees - Posted by Anthony Cottongim
Posted by Anthony Cottongim on September 22, 2004 at 24:12:52:
Hi Jeff just writing to see if you need another birddog I live in Indianapolis contact me at 317-359-2829or at work at317-568-4306
Re: referral/birddog fees - Posted by Jeff Sterner
Posted by Jeff Sterner on September 05, 2004 at 18:04:03:
…a serious risk, you ask? The only thing you need to ask yourself is, “will this stand up in a court of law?” This is, in fact, quite risky. I’m just talking about the “NOTHING in writing” part. The fact that you offer to pay a percentage will only catch the attention of the greedy estute legal minded.
I just hope you don’t tick-off anyone in the process.
Transactions in the REI biz are too large not to have every T crossed and I dotted in the contracts, from a legal perspective… even with a B-Dog! Change your practice, don’t get burned!
Best of luck,
Jeff Sterner
Re: Another thing…no - Posted by Rich Hyams
Posted by Rich Hyams on September 05, 2004 at 14:39:44:
No, I don’t care if its got 30k or 50k, when I am coming out of pocket big, using my credit, my money, my this and that, I will thank the bird dog VERY much, but 50-50 is as fair as I get.
Re: referral/birddog fees - Posted by JohnBoy
Posted by JohnBoy on September 06, 2004 at 17:08:48:
Why would you put anything in writing pertaining to birddog fees? Unless the birddog is licensed, it won’t hold up in court and collecting any fee is not enforceable. Getting paid as a birddog requires a license in most states, if not all states.
If you found a deal you brought me and I skipped out of paying you your fee, and you went to court, you would not collect unless you were a licensed agent/broker. Working as a birddog is merely a trust thing between you and the investor. If either gets burned then they won’t work together again on future deals.
You don’t need a license to pay a fee, but you certainly need one to collect a fee. Without being licensed you could not collect on it, even in a court of law, regardless of whether you had anything in writing or not. I’ve seen cases like this in small claims court. The courts ruled they could not enforce the fee being paid because under the state law you are required to have a license to collect any fees pertaining to buying and selling real estate.
Re: Another thing…no - Posted by ifindyoubuy
Posted by ifindyoubuy on September 05, 2004 at 21:04:38:
I am a Bird Dog and I even agree. I mean, I WOULD LUUUVVVV to get the $20K, don’t mistake me. However, as an Investor also, one can’t accomplish the goal without the other. 50/50 is cool! Man…I’m going to start evaluating my worth a lot more.
You’re Kidding? - Posted by Lenny S.
Posted by Lenny S. on September 05, 2004 at 22:48:10:
-Sorry,just had to jump in. I would NEVER split my profits 50/50 with a dog, who at times brings me little more than an address!!
-Put the shoe on the other foot. Would you put up all the money,holding costs,possible pitfalls/risks,etc and deem it fair to split with this person? I’ve seen assignment fees as high as 10k, and that is with a full invester package which analyzed the deal with comps,etc, AND, of course the deal already being signed,and even that can be negotiable depending on factors such as equity and time until an auction.
-Here in N.Y., most savvy investors would laugh at that 50/50 split proposal, and frankly I would be one of them! Sorry if I’ve offended, but that would be pie in the sky here, and you would starve!
Lenny…
Re: You’re Kidding? - Posted by Anthony - OH
Posted by Anthony - OH on September 05, 2004 at 23:26:09:
you’re right an address is worthless… but if they are bringing you a contract… then its a different story…
Re: You’re Kidding? - Posted by Brad Crouch
Posted by Brad Crouch on September 06, 2004 at 12:41:22:
If you’re bringing only an address, you are a bird dog. If you are bringing a signed contract, you are a flipper.
Brad