Ronald *Starr I completely disagree. - Posted by D

Posted by D on August 07, 2002 at 12:02:08:

Hello Mr. Chin, at this point I could quit buying/selling and still be comfortable. It took me closer to 2 years ( 20 monthes) In my opinion, you`ll never be out of the loop. If you have notes or rentals or money lent out your phone will ring at some point. This is a business. But the returns are much much higher, and you can choose your hours. ‘Flipping’ properties is really something. The potential for profit from buying and selling distressed homes is enormous.

You make an excellent point about building capital for long term cash flow, I am developing an RV park and have cashflow from that from spaces already done. I consider payments from the homes I`ve sold on a wrap long term. (unless they payoff)

The most important thing I would say about what I have done is I never had a “get rich quick” attitude, I just simply realized two things; You can find property, right now, that can buy way below what you can sell it for. And you can sell that property.

Im certain Ill always be invovlved with property to some degree. I would incourage anyone who is interested in real estate to pursue it, whatever you do you will wind up accumulating assets. Just remember to pay your taxes! D

Ronald *Starr I completely disagree. - Posted by D

Posted by D on August 01, 2002 at 05:07:58:

Mr. Starr, I responded to a message a week or so ago where a person questioned your experience and I suggested it doesnt matter where someone might get ideas on how to invest in real estate, whether they had questions answered by someone who knows alot about buying property or a bum on the street if the answer they got made them think of something they hadnt thought of before or saw things in a different light would be a good thing. I noticed in one of your responses to this person you said you still had a regular job and you were waiting for some money so you could fix your rentals to get income from them. Since that time, Ive noticed that you respond to many many posts here and the other board. I punched your name in the archive and came up with almost 900 hits. I checked a few and you say you had read over 100 books on real estate and you co-authored a book? In any event, Im certain you are a nice person, your responses to people seem heartfelt and positive. You seem to have alot of info on many subjects and you may truley believe that you are helping folks but… I punched up your “beginners success” post and I believe it is a disservice to anyone interested in buying and selling real estate for financial independence. Telling people it will take 15 years to become successful is absolute nonsense. In one of your other posts you recommended to a beginer it would take a year to look at 100 houses to get a feel for the market… are you kidding? He should get in his car in the next 15 minutes and drive around in a 15 mile radius of his home until he finds 15 properties a day for a total of 15 days that are abandoned or look distressed and find the owners through the court house and start making low offers and sell on a wrap or l/o or whatever he can do to make money. Spend 15 bucks on an ad. Who cares about his strengths or salesmanship or the market or reading 100 books or credit or realtors or appraisors or banks or peoples websites or anything? Find the distress sale, DISTRESS sale, the house most people would throw a match in, the house where everyone living in it are not on the ball. The out of state owner with renters who like to rebuild the familys car motor on the living room carpet. Buy it before it goes into forclosure, buy it CHEAP and sell for a profit. Get money to float it then sell it. That is one way to become financialy independent… in 15 months… I did it in 20. I quit my job. If it takes 15 years for some people to do it, whatever. To act like an authority on the subject and TELL people it will take that long is in my opinion completly unacceptable. What is your regular job? What will it take for your rentals to start to pay? Are you in Ca. and the rentals are in Ok.? What does the county have them assessed at? How many properties do you own? In one of your posts you say youve been investing in real estate for 20 years.. 20 years? And your still working a job? No notes? No money lent out at 12%? No rental income? No big chunks? Is your primary residence paid for? Hows the real estate book doing? To any beginner I would say go for it, find the deal now. Dont plan on having what you want when youre dead. Find the deal, dont fill your head with to many things at once. Find the deal. Mr. Starr I would recommend the same to you. I am not trying to offend anyone. I am not an expert in real estate. I found one thing that works for me. D

Did The Fat Lady Sing ? “D” - Posted by $Cash$

Posted by $Cash$ on August 02, 2002 at 22:44:05:


Gald to meet you.

You must have heard the Fat Lady singing, and figured its all over after 20 months, no way you could fall down.

Personally I think you missed your calling there is not one person selling courses that would not buy your hard sell advertisement (I mean post) about Ronald * Starr.

The good guy - bad guy routine really impressed me, sell the get started now to he new person, but Ronald * Starr has many admirers including me, so don’t get them to hot, clever very clever.

I will be looking forward to your posts in helping create a learning atmosphere in this community in the future. Maybe I should have said waiting.


Maybe I wasn’t wrong after all! (long) - Posted by Buck_GA

Posted by Buck_GA on August 02, 2002 at 12:03:06:

A little while back I read a Ron Star reply to someone’s request for help. Then another post from a reader criticising Ron’s answer saying he was only trying to promote his book. The poster further justified his reply by saying that in all the years, Ron was still working a full time job. Well I searched the posts and found nothing indicating that Ron was promoting his book. I read Ron’s message to the newbies that said it would take 15 years to be successful. Well I disagreed with that statement, but that’s ok, we all have opinions.

I then asked Ron a question: Are you comfortable in you position as far as real estate investing and your job goes? I expected him to answer “Yes”, at which, I was going to reply, "That’s what we are striving for! Our personal comfort level. If he is happy holding a job and working real estate part time, then indeed, he is successful. "

Ron Star burst my bubble! He replied that you weren’t happy with your job and your level of real estate income. I didn’t criticize him for it or look down on him for it. If anything, he was an example of some of the “less fortunates” that didn’t make a million dollars in three years or less as so many gurus try to sell. So much for that.

Later, I read his article again. Again, I disagreed with his 15 years to success. But one thing about his article that was pleasant reading – No Hype! I am so tired of hearing the fast-talking hype about getting rich quick with real estate. It is true, Real Estate is a great vehicle to do so, but not every investor will get there so quickly, if at all.

Then, today I read this entire thread. I learned something new! Ron hasn’t been working for 25 years. Rather, after, what 15, 20 years? Ron got his a$$ kicked by a bad deal! It doesn’t matter to me why that happened, the fact is that a fifteen plus year veteran got bit hard by a deal gone bad. Thats a WARNING! A warning to newbies! A warning to the seasoned investor! A warning to ME!

Additionally, I learned today that so many investors from the timeframe in which I first started learning real estate investing have gone bankrupt or are in jail. This is news to me.

I first started learning real estate investment in 1985 with a Carlton Sheets course. I had several opportunities to apply the techniques but chickened out… buck buck buck buck! I was never comfortable with the risk to reward ratio. According to the methods of the day, I was expected to buy property using any means I could find. Risk my credit from anywhere I could get it, Risk the bank calling a DOS clause. Leverage the property to the max and Risk not being able to afford to make payments with only $100/month positive cash flow.

Until now, I have believed that in that period I had made a bad mistake. I thought I was wrong. Now, maybe I am thinking I was right in postponing my investment activities. At the time I was looking into this, another investor took action. He purchased 6 homes placing $4000-$6000 down each and taking over payments. Then he rented each house for $100/month over the monthly payments which ranged from $400-700/month. One month he came buy happy to see that one tenant in his six homes was still there. Five had bailed out and by the time he found out it cost him 2 months payments each. He had to take time off work borrow the money to make payment and clean up the properties and find new tenants.

In all fairness in 20/20 hindsight, I believe it would have been the wrong thing for me to have invested in real estate in the way I knew how back then. Now things are different. I know different techniques and they have built within them certain safeguards that have made me more comfortable with investing. I am working steadily towards getting my first piece of property and building my business.

Ron Star’s statement that it will take 15 years to become successful, is, in my opinion, wrong, but, I will give him this – It may not take 15 years to BECOME successful, but it could very well take 15 years to PROVE your success.

BTW, I am certainly glad I did not criticise Ron Star as earlier mentioned, otherwise I would be eating crow right now.

Thank you Ron, and thank you all for this lesson I learned.


Re: Ronald *Starr I completely disagree. - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on August 02, 2002 at 05:24:59:

Hello Mr. D:

You became financially independent in 20 months? Good for you. In that case, you should be discussing deals you done, and help newbies answer some of their questions. I’ve been following his board for a while and haven’t seen such advice or responses from you YET.

I read Mr. Starr’s answer below, and the man says he’s been financially independent for close to 20 years out of a 25 plus year career. Wrote a book or two in between. While it took him a few years to get there, and not 20 months, that’s good enough for me.

From what I heard, I number of creative RE gurus from the early 80’s had gone bankrupt, or to jail. I recall following an earlier discussion with Mr. Starr that a mistake cost him 100K from which he’s still trying to recover from.

To be honest, the advice from a veteran like Mr. Starr who’s gone up, then down, and on the way up again is far more valuable than a “flash in the pan” investor. You may recall instant millionaire stock traders a few years back laughing at Warren Buffet as “old fashioned and out of date” Warren even conceded he should have gone to the movies one bad year. So who’s laughing now?

I see you scoffed at Ron’s advice to look at 100 houses. You say to buy something cheap and flip it for a profit. But it seems to me that you have no idea of the value of a property, and you’ll do OK so long as you’ll find someone else who has no idea of what a property is worth either.

Putting it differently, go find a sucker. It’s this type of attitude and mentality that has given “creative” real estate a bad name.

It sounds awfully like day traders who has no idea of what a stock is really worth, so long as he can sell it an hour later for more.

You seem to ask many questions of Mr. Starr. How about yourself? Can you give us the number of deals you done, whether you own your own home free and clear, how many properties you flipped, any notes, your primary residence paid for, how big is it?

And you say your no expert, so are you really qualified to tell folks that its absolute nonsense to study the value of real estate?

Frank Chin

Re:Lets pick on Ron Starrs day !!! - Posted by Julius Levai

Posted by Julius Levai on August 01, 2002 at 18:32:15:

Hello pickers ! I did ask Ron 10+ years ago; what did we (wife and I) did wrong about failing in investing in r.e.? He said that; what we did was to fast and wanted to do to much to soon. Well, his speed is slightly different then some of us “normal” folks, but to this day I still disagree with that point of view. I do not see him as a creative investor; investing in Oklahoma tax sales -from Oakland, Ca- does not qualify as a creative investor in my book, and having Jack Reed as a mentor/idol doesn`t help any either…On the positive note; he is one of the most honest person you can find to do business with, and I have my share of dealings… Julius.

Re: Ronald *Starr I completely disagree. - Posted by michaela-ATL

Posted by michaela-ATL on August 01, 2002 at 13:18:30:

hm, so you’re one of those people, that buys the houses, that should have been torn down instead?
and then what…? you sell them to another newbie, that doesn’t realize that the house should have been torn down, so that he/she gets in over his/her head?
but who cares - you make money, right?
i see it every day here in atlanta, where the market is getting destroyed by all those people, that think"wholesaling is the easy thing to do to get rich overnight, because they’ll always find a ‘sucker’ to buy whatever house they try to turn." they have never done a real rehab, but think they know what it takes.
i know to a lot of americans success is only defined by how much money you make and the car you drive.
being a success as a human being is a lot harder to do.
just my thoughts. of course, i don’t mean to offend anyone, either :wink:

Re: Ronald *Starr I completely disagree. - Posted by Rob

Posted by Rob on August 01, 2002 at 10:34:53:


You have to remember that during the time, or that era, that we learn real estate. There was no internet access to the general public.

We had to learned real estate from the school of hard knocks, books, seminars (R.Allen), and John Beck, who is the only local guy teaching this. Of course, he move toward something else, which is more profitable (tax liens).

D: You, do have to look at the age of the person too. I have met Ron Starr personally. He is not what everyone thinks he is. He is a very, very informative person. He is not the best creative person, but neither is everyone else. Remember, it took him 25 years to get to this point with the given experience, and limited money resource he may have.

I tell you this, because I have done it this way for a while. Is it the right way? No, I don’t think so. There is truly no one answer to this question. Your approach may be to grab every investments in site, and flip it, while others wait for the full appreciation.
That what many do in the bay area. Some make it, others don’t.

You could say that we are sitting on dead equity. I am sure many people are, but there are many that know, or have the guts to take the so-called risk, and make millions. Like some of the players, at the auctions. Ron is not one of these players, or he wouldn’t be working for one of them.

One thing for sure, he does have the experience. After 25 years of make some $$$, and getting beat up. You cannot, but have the experience. Ask any old investors.

Last D, My friend who invested. Made over 2 Millions on 1031 exchanges in San Francisco in a little over 6 years. So, your right, it doesn’t take 15, or 25 years to do it. You’re on the right track, but it depends on who you are. Do you have what it takes? Knowledge, experience, skill, education, and guts to do it?

I wish everyone here good luck, and follow their dreams,


P.S. Remember, Ron Starr never said he made it. He is just sharing his thoughts.

Dear $Cash$ - Posted by D

Posted by D on August 03, 2002 at 01:59:45:

Its not over, its just getting good. Im not selling anything. I feel Ive kicked a$$ and Im proud of what Ive acomplished. Hard sell advertisement? Good guy bad guy? I dont get it. Im new to this site, is everyone so touchy? Why the attitude? Who made you captain Kirk? I stand by what I said, Ron Starr directing new people coming to this site to his “beginners success” post and telling them to expect to spend 15 years before they become successful is wrong advice. The fat lady will be dead from waiting for people to actually make an offer on a property. If the fat lady where losing her house tomorrow because she rang up a huge twinkie bill against it, whos going to get it? It will be someone who knows just the right amount of twinkies to offer her to walk. NOW not 15 years from now. When I have time Ill try to post here and there, or maybe Ill start my own course like you suggested, Ill try not to keep you waiting to long… Just my two bites… I mean cents. D

Re: Maybe I wasn’t wrong after all! (long) - Posted by Ronald * Starr(inNo CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(inNo CA) on August 02, 2002 at 22:33:10:


No matter how nice you are to me, you can’t have a free book. Actually, I don’t sell the books anymore. Not that they weren’t good books, it’s just that selling books is a business too. And I don’t want to spend a lot of time doing that.

Your last comment was of interest to me. I wonder how much of what you learned came from outside yourself and how much came from within? I feel that I have learned a lot about real estate investing approaches by studying the posts on CREONLINE.COM and a couple of other sites over the past 18 months. I have learned about myself and how I approached real estate investing. How much is due to stimulus from others? How much from being willing to do some self-examination? It sounds to me like you have the capacity for growth. I like that. It will probably pay off for you.

I appreciated your description of what you saw in the past and the people who proved that it is not necessarily easy to get rich with real estate quickly.

I may need to update my advise some, given the views of Todd, D, and others who have shown the ability to get financially free in a short period of time. But, I have a hard time knowing what to say that will be honest and helpful to a wide range of beginners. Now, here is a direct quote from my advice:
“First, recognize that it will probably take several years of real estate investing before you will reach your personal financial goal. I estimate about 10-15 years, if you work part-time at it while having ?a day job.? If you get to a point where you can do it full time, it may take a few years less.”

Notice I say this is my estimate. Maybe I need to say that other people believe it can be done faster. What say you? How do we give the best advice for a broad range of readers, honestly, and realistically?

Good Investing and Good Thinking About Investing*****Ron Starr*************

Maybe I need to mpore clearly qualify my 12-15 years to financial goals as being for the part time investor.

Dear Mr. Chin… - Posted by D

Posted by D on August 02, 2002 at 21:58:09:

I`m relatively new to this site, I hope you read the positive things I said about Mr. Starr. After re-reading my post I regret making comments about Mr. Starrs home and finances.Poor taste. None of my business. Any thing can happen to anyone, illness, bad deal etc. But I still stand by what I said earlier.

In my opinion if someone says it takes 15 years to become successful I`ll disagree. Someone directing new folks coming to this site to check the archives for his “beginners success” post in which he says it will take 15 years to become successful is what I have a problem with.

I cannot for the life of me understand what you mean by “flash in the pan investors” and “go find a sucker”. "Its this type of attitude and mentality that has given creative real estate a bad name". What does that mean? Borrowing hard money to buy distressed property and sell for a profit is creative real estate investing 101.I hate to break the news to you but this sites main topic is creative real estate investing. Which is what I do. Those statements you made suggest to me that you have never done a no money down deal. Everything I own is paid for as a direct result of real estate investing. I didnt scoff at Mr. Starrs advice to "look at 100 houses", I scoffed at his advise to take a YEAR to do it while "learning the market in your area". You can get a good idea what property goes for by reading your local paper and getting some print outs from your local realtor in a couple days. I looked at a house today about 45 miles away, on the way there I must have looked at 50-60 houses. I look for signs of vacancy, neglect, tall grass etc. So Im always looking for property.

Would you like my advise on real estate investing? The holy grail? The main thing in my opinion?.. Find the motivated seller… You can have all the charts of sales of every house for every month in your county, you can “know your market” you can scour the newspapers for deals, you can take every course in the world but none of that matters if you cant find the deal. I never said it was absolute nonsense to study the value of real estate, I said it was absolute nonsence to tell "newbies' it will take them 15 years to become successfull. Im not even qualified to tie my shoes but I`ll try to answer questions when I can on this board, it looks like a bunch of nice folks come here. Good luck to you Mr. Chin D

Re:Lets pick on Ron Starrs day !!! - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in no CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in no CA) on August 01, 2002 at 22:15:40:

Julius Levai–(CA)--------------

In my beginners success post I point out that, in my opinion, there are two ways to go wrong in real estate investing. The first is to do nothing – nothing leads to nothing. The second is to try to do too much and losing your properties on foreclosure. I think you were on that end of the spectrum. Now, if you have managed to keep going and are building up real estate holdings again, then maybe you learned to pace yourself better.

Good InvestingRon Starr**********

Re:Lets pick on Ron Starrs day !!! - Posted by michaela-ATL

Posted by michaela-ATL on August 01, 2002 at 19:52:32:

i’ve been on this board only a month or so, but i’ve found ron’s posts very informative and i’ve learned some things from him. maybe he wants to do things at his own speed? what’s wrong with that? that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have anything to teach. creativity means to create something new, so sinse the market in cal. isn’t too great for buying properties, instead of saying:"oh, well, nothing i can do, he went out and found a different way to make money. i do consider that creative. he’s suggested, if you know about a property being in default, but not yet in foreclosure, to try to buy the mortgage note at a discount and foreclose yourself. i think that’s pretty creative.
there are other things, that i read, that i can’t think of right now.
so, are you saying because this is called creative real estate online, that only people, that are doing super-creative deals can write here. i only buy properties and renovate, which isn’t really creative, so i need to shut up as well, right? what about john hyre, who does the legal board. that’s not creative, so let’s shut that one down. in fact, change the board, so, that people have to register. they have to prove, that they are active in real estate, and they have to use only creative techniques before they’re allowed to give their thoughts. how many people do you think would be left?
i think it’s pretty low of you all to put down a man, that seems to spend a lot of time sharig some of his opinions on this and trying to help others. we all have different opinions. so, what? just pull out the pieces, that fit for you and go on.
just my thoughts

No Michaela, thats not what I do. - Posted by D

Posted by D on August 01, 2002 at 15:48:51:

Hello Michaela,My referance to “houses that most people would throw a match in” means it needs work. And the price reflects that when I buy especially. Not houses that need to be torn down, I do not sell to “newbies”. I care what happens to the house because I sell on a wrap, thats how I make money. The people I sell to are not “suckers”, they are hard working people who are sick of throwing their hard earned money away renting a place, usually an apartment so small they can hear their neighbor flush the toilet. They usually have a doctor bill pop up on their credit report, or they bought a lemon used car that broke down on them and they didnt make the payment so their credits not perfect. These people jump at a chance to buy and own their own home from someone like me who will sell to them and carry the note. Most folks will do fixup on a property they buy from you, its called sweat equity. Everyone wins. I define success in real estate having all your bills paid as a direct result of your real estate transactions, meaning financial independance. My main car I drive daily is a beat up `91 toyota pickup. My main reason for posting my original message was not to offend, only my opinion you can be successful in a very short time with real estate.D

Re: Ronald *Starr I completely disagree. - Posted by Todd

Posted by Todd on August 01, 2002 at 14:08:52:

I’ve wondered about this too. 25 years investing and still not full-time!!! I’m sure Ron’s s great guy, but I’m not all that sure of his credibility,!
And 15 years to become successful?? ABSOLUTELEY ABSURD!

Re: Ronald *Starr I completely disagree. - Posted by D

Posted by D on August 01, 2002 at 16:30:33:

Hello Rob, I know that we are in the infofmation age now and info is more readily available, so it may be easier now to find ways to make money with real estate. I know its different for different people, I know it can take years for someone to become successful, I have immediate family members I cannot for the life of me explain how I buy and sell, theyll never get it, or do it. I said in my earlier post Im certain Mr. Starr is a nice person, but to direct "newbies" who come to this site frequently to very nicely written posts that basically says expect to spend 10-15 years to become successful is beyond me. You can have all the experience in the world but if you dont realize that there is property popping up every day, right in your area that you can buy at a low price and resale for a profit, youve missed the meat and potatos of this business. Granted some areas in the US are red hot as far as sales, so the chances of finding a distress sale are slimmer but you can still do it. I dont know if Mr. Starr ever said he made it or not, but maybe he shouldnt direct "newbies" how to make it if he thinks it takes so long. That all I meant to say, I hope I dont sound negative, like I said in an earlier post you can get information everywhere. Hopefully some will hit a hot button for you and make you realize something you hadnt thought of before, it doesnt matter where the source is from. I`m not an expert, just my 2 cents. D

Re: Dear $Cash$ - Posted by $Cash$

Posted by $Cash$ on August 03, 2002 at 09:24:01:


Ronald * Starr posted:

“First, recognize that it will probably take several years of real estate investing before you will reach your personal financial goal. I estimate about 10-15 years, if you work part-time at it while having ?a day job.? If you get to a point where you can do it full time, it may take a few years less.”

Ronald * Starr has always been such a liberal. “15 years before you reach your personal finanacial goal.” and “working part time”. More like 20 years.

My personal financial goal after calculating a minimum of $8K profit per house plus a monthly income of $200 per month on each house, was to buy and sell 2000 houses and after 6 years I am only 1/4 of the way there working part time. My day job is volunteering my services to the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. It looks like it it is going to take me 20 years to reach my personal financial goal.

Maybe a little thoughtfullness about a person’s feelings should have been interjected in your post.

You can argue your point without trying to degrade a fellow investor and his thoughts.

Good Luck on your course and investing.

Captain Kirk to Scotty “do not beam me up yet I haven’t reached my personal financial goals.”


Todd’s thoughts. - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on August 01, 2002 at 22:05:57:


Hi, you’ve got the same name as Todd in MO who took me to task when I first posted my advice for beginners. But, I think you are him. Although I think he would agree with your comment “And 15 years to become successful?? ABSOLUTELEY ABSURD!”

I have changed my advise some on the basis of Todd’s comments and those of a couple of other people.

I make no claim of having the “truth.” I have simply given what I think is the best advice that I can give in a short article or long post, or whatever it is. If I had better advice I would give it.

Now, if you are so unhappy with my advice, why don’t you take the time to provide something to beginners that you think would help them more than my advice?

If you do take up that challenge, try to think of advice that would apply to a lot of people. Or, maybe it would be good if your advice is not aimed at everybody, to specify who you think can use your advice. I worry that the “Just get out there and do it” school of advice is not really right for a lot of people. It works for some people, not all. Who should try a different appoach? Are their people who have done very poorly in real estate investing because they followed that line? I think so.

I was independently unemployed from 1978 through about 1997 or 1998, supporting myself with real estate deals.

I got into a financial hole and, to get out honorably and quickly, went back to a salaried position. I will admit to not being a particularly good businessperson. I am much more interested in understanding what is going on in real estate investing than trying to make the most money possible. And in helping people rather than helping myself to the maximum. This is a personaly quirk or flaw. I also have some other personality flaws, upon which I work, which have led me to not maximize my own potential.

Now that I see what is happening with me more clearly, I will be cutting back upon my advice on this and other forums. I need to concentrate on doing my own business better.

It is true that the 15 years to financial independence I quote may seem long to you. However, you will note that I was talking about somebody doing real estate part time while this takes place. I wonder if you have any guess at what percent of people who start out in real estate investing can get financially independent in 3 yrs, 5 yrs, 7 yrs, etc. Any experience that gives you insight into it?

How do you judge credibility? What criteria does a “helper” or “teacher” or “guru” have to possess to make them credible in your eyes?

Now, I am willing to admit my weakenesses in real estate investing. How about you? What creditiblity should people place upon your post? How can they know what you say is sensible and accurate?

Good Investing and Good PostingRon Starr********

Re: Ronald *Starr I completely disagree. - Posted by Rob

Posted by Rob on August 01, 2002 at 17:12:31:


Trust me, there are people that you can never convince, no matter what you do, or try, and even prove it to them.

My friend told me that she is a personal friend of John Burley, and he is a millionaire, and he has a hard time convincing his own family. Of course, we all want ours friends, and families to come along for the ride, but they really don’t get it. Oh, you can’t do that. Only the bank can do that! Where can you get that kind of returns? The bank don’t give you that, so it must be a scam. You must be doing something crooked. What have I done? Try to educated them, so they will make better use of their money. I have given up trying and doing my own thing now.

Also, no expert,

Re: Dear $Cash$, $100k per month? - Posted by D

Posted by D on August 03, 2002 at 16:54:18:

Sorry if I seemed thoughtless, It is not my intention to degrade anyone! I thought your message to me was a little snippy so I was a little snippy back, lets not start out on the wrong foot! I suppose everyone has a goal with real estate, it truely is one of the best ways to make money for the average Joe. I would encourage folks to keep trying and learning. Am I reading this right? Youve bought and sold 500 houses in 6 years? Cashflow $100k a month? Thats great! Your not pulling my leg are you? The hell with those mutts, Id be in Bali!!{just kidding) That sounds like complete success in 6 years if it were me. Take care D