Serious post, serious answers please? (Long) - Posted by Todd (AZ)

Posted by Bruce on May 02, 2006 at 13:00:10:

I am sure this is going to gather some responses. All this is merely one persons opinion. Let me address a few of your comments.“I KNOW the camp is good, I KNOW the folks putting it on are the best”. Just because something is “good” as you say does not make it so for each and every individual. I am assuming you have not been to one(neither have I) so you truly do not know that the camp is “good” you know that others said it was good. For them perhaps it was. As far as the price of the parks, it is one thing to buy a park for 1.1 million if it cash flows and there are improvements to the operation that you feel you could make to further raise cash, it is another thing if does not. A loan is only as good or bad as is your ability to repay it. As far as motivated sellers, you cannot determine a sellers motivation based on the dollar amount. Motivated sellers are judged by how much below the marketable price they are willing to sell. As far as everything else you seem like a well thought individual and I thing you are doing yourself justice by realizing that each of us have our own version of the “real world” and the key to our success lies in determining how we best utilize our skills within it.Maybe a park is not within reach at this time but maybe another means of investment is. I am also pretty sure that most people on this board would be glad to meet with you if it turns out that attending the bootcamp is not in the cards for you. Good luck.

Serious post, serious answers please? (Long) - Posted by Todd (AZ)

Posted by Todd (AZ) on May 02, 2006 at 12:35:39:

Getting ready to spend about $1,500 in money (Flight, room, seminar, taxi’s, 6 hour round trip to airport from my home in Arizona, etc), more in lost wages, and almost a week of my time to pull off this “boot camp”. I KNOW the camp is good, I KNOW the folks putting it on are the best, and I know you can’t put a price on education, etc, etc. That is NOT my issue. What truly concerns me are the MAJOR price differences I keep reading about. I don’t know what Tony/Scott have paid for their parks, but, I’m a one man show here, working full time, and the 2 parks for sale here are $1.1 million and $1.3 million for 1-2 acres only with approx 30 mobiles (old) on them. In all fairness, I did manage to find a horrible, 6 mobile park for $300,000. A land/home here runs about $75,000 and does not cashflow. One acre in the county (no utils) approaches $100,000. Motivated sellers must be hiding cause I’m not finding them. I’m seriously concerned that what I take home from the seminar may not quite apply here without partners, negative cash flow, etc. I don’t mind partners (haven’t been able to find any worthwhile yet)but I’d like to do the first small one on my own. Prices seem 3 - 5 times higher here but income is NOT 3-5 times higher, probably about the same in fact. I don’t mean to sound negative or a “it can’t be done in my area” type but I WOULD like someone to address this. It’s NOT a matter of “if you believe it won’t work, it won’t”. This is the reality here.

I’m dying to meet the folks behind this board, and I know I’ll learn a lot at boot camp. However, if it doesn’t transfer into actual DEALS here due to the huge price variances, I’m hesitant as to how much of this I can apply real world HERE. Is this boot camp as beneficial for those of us in the markets with much higher prices as it is for those where it seems (to me at least) that they are practically GIVING land away? Can someone address this please? Thank you. Todd (AZ)

Re: Serious post, serious answers please? (Long) - Posted by Daphne Lowe

Posted by Daphne Lowe on May 03, 2006 at 10:11:48:

“I don’t mean to sound negative or a “it can’t be done in my area” type but I WOULD like someone to address this.”

If you are asking if there are areas where this doesn’t work, the answer is YES. There are some places where there is sufficient supply to meet the limited demand. Such places have enough individuals or institutions supplying money to meet the demand of the few folks who are fiscally challenged (and therefore in need of our services). My hometown is one of those rare places. There are thousands of MHs and dozens of MHPs, none of which would cash flow at the price they would sell for today. A Lonnie Dealer would starve here. It absolutely, positively won’t work. There’s little demand: for many folks (some areas >50%) this is their 2nd home, they are well able to respond to life’s events that force so many lesser people to use us as a last resort; there’s sufficient supply: a lot of buyers who are willing and able to pay cash- an unusually large % of RE closings do not have liens recorded. But this type of place is rare. Most places have people who are fiscally undisciplined which is fodder for the opportunities LDers can take advantage of. If your town has a payday lender, buy here pay here car lot, or cash for title shop, its a good bet Lonnie’s approach will work in your area. I don’t know your area, there may be parts of AZ that are like Monroe County. But I know it doesn’t characterize to the whole state. If it doesn’t work in your area, drive someplace where it does.


Re: Serious post, serious answers please? (Long) - Posted by rise2it (VA)

Posted by rise2it (VA) on May 03, 2006 at 03:27:59:

Gonna pitch for Scott/Tony here - went to the Sept 2005 Boot Camp - best money I ever spent.

I can honestly say that if I had NEVER set foot inside the meeting room during those 3 days, It STILL would have been worth the money.

Until you get there, you won’t believe how knowledgeable and helpful the others are, just talking over lunch or evening drinks.

As for your area, you’re going to have to adjust the numbers - sale prices are higher, but so are lot rents, etc. in certain parts of Arizona compared to what we get here in the ‘south’.

The boot camp will teach you how to figure what to offer, and what to pay to make these work.

Re: Serious post, serious answers please? (Long) - Posted by Chris Reuman (Maine)

Posted by Chris Reuman (Maine) on May 02, 2006 at 23:00:54:

The key is, do you want to be doing Lonnie deals, mhp, mobiles on land. My advice is to start with Lonnie’s books, Scott/Tony courses, Ray Alcorn’s mhp course, etc… Learn from these. See if you want to be in this business. Those three areas are available everywhere in the country. When I say that, I mean within a 3 hours radius of your home. If you are close to an airport than 3 hour plane trip. The bottom line is that opportunities are out there, you just have to be looking at a lot of properties. People that say there are no deals, usually aren’t looking hard enough. In my area, the ratio is 20-1, in your area it might be 50-1. The key is look at 50 properties, lonnie deals, mhp, etc… This means go visit and knock on doors. The best deals are found before they go to a realtor.

I have been to the boot camp and highly recommend it to anyone active in this business: mh land banks, mhp, and/or lonnie deals. You get to meet Karl with over 80 lonnie deals. He has done them every way possible. Scott/Tony have 5 mhp and I believe 30-40 mh land banks. Bruce provides you with excellent legal advice. At the after hours, there are a lot of people with mhps, lonnie deals, and mh land banks. The biggest benefit is not all the information you get at the boot camp. To me it is the future access you get to these experts. That is the real pay-off. In this business, deals come up quickly, and you have to make decisions quickly. Sometimes you get too close to a deal and need an outside view. This is when it pays to have Scott, Tony, Karl, on speed dial, which I do. That is when they can help you save tens of thousands of dollars.

I hope this helps you in your decision making.

Best investing, Chris

Re: Serious post, serious answers please? (Long) - Posted by Ryan (NC)

Posted by Ryan (NC) on May 02, 2006 at 20:51:10:


As you know all to well, prices fluctuate greatly from area to area… A SFH that my mother rents out in Tucson for something like 1200 or 1300 a month MIGHT bring 650 in my area on a good day. An hour up the road the same house would be more like 900. Regardless of where we choose to live and invest the ideas are still the same!

The knowledge you’ll gain just from the after hours networking sessions alone will pay for the trip, combined with the speakers you’ll leave with more information and ideas to take your business to the next level than you know what to do with. Being sorta green at the first boot camp it took me a while to digest everything, but a couple of weeks and months down the road when you start having ahah moments you?ll be glad you came.

Even if your path continues to lead you down the LD road for a while after attending the boot camp you?ll be armed with new ideas to tackle the problems that are inherent with our business. Is it worth it? I say emphatically YES, I credit these guys along with Lonnie in getting us to where we are. My gratitude for the information that they provided just can’t be put into words.

Best wishes,
Ryan Needler

Re: Serious post, serious answers please? (Long) - Posted by Adam (IN)

Posted by Adam (IN) on May 02, 2006 at 19:04:25:

It was once famously quoted somewhere here “were not trees…were free to move about as we please” or something to the like, basically you are not the first to face this problem and you definately wont be the last…when you live in a highly desired or fast growing area, “deals” will be much harder to come by and believe it or not there are people that have moved to a better area for “lonnies”, maybe that’s not in the cards for you and if it isn’t, you will have to work your tail off to not only find deals, but more importantly to be the “first” to find the deal AND close it! oh and remember, your in a fast growing area so selling should not be hard, especially on terms! as adament as you seem on this board about succeeding i have no doubt you will figure out a way to make this work…best of luck

Re: Serious post, serious answers - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Tony Colella on May 02, 2006 at 15:54:20:

They aren’t giving land away here either and we see 30 unit parks going for a million or more all the time. We call those retail. We don’t invest in retail. We don’t invest in the $100,000 lots of 1/10 acre either. Its about knowing what to look for, how to determine value, how to put the deal together, how to put the money together, how to collect the profits in cash flow, equity and lump sums of cash, … and then what to do with the property.

Todd the boot camp is about education and knowledge expansion. No one will twist your arm to come. We only want you here if you believe you will benefit from it. We also understand there are travel costs and hotel rooms to pay for but the total price you quoted is less than other programs out there and in some cases 1/3 of just the cost of the boot camp (not to mention travel etc.).


Re: Serious post, serious answers please? (Long) - Posted by Sailor

Posted by Sailor on May 02, 2006 at 15:06:57:

I’m sure there are a lot of different opinions on this, Todd, but for me one of the most valuable things I learned @ Boot Camp was to look @ things in a different way. Though not big time, I’ve been involved in REI for a very long time, & along the way have developed strong opinions on what works for me & what doesn’t. One of my long-held beliefs is that mortgages are for the young, not for someone like me, retired for years. Tony & Scott totally blew me away by showing me how (horrors) I just might not be 100% correct. No, I didn’t rush out & get a mortgage, but my horizons have expanded & I’ve now got another arrow in my quiver. Being pretty independent, another option I had never considered was partnering. You mentioned that in your post, but also that you hadn’t met any good potential partners. One of the best things about the get-together in Asheville is that you will meet lots of fellow travelers, folks who understand exactly the kind of problems you are facing. Last year I met lots of people whose opinions I highly value, & who have been extremely supportive of me when I needed them. Some would make terrific partners. I have said previously that if I had attended Boot Camp earlier than I did, I’d have saved a lot of $$$ on buying my mhp. Truth be told, had I done that, I might not have bought a mhp @ all; it just might have been a better idea for me to partner up w/one or more of these fine folks. I’d have spent less $$$, & wouldn’t have had to do any of the work. If there is a way to make your market work for you, you’ll probably discover it in Asheville. I don’t know your area, Todd, but if you are correct that your part of the southwest isn’t appropriate for what you want to do, working w/others might be a way for you to expand your opportunities geographically.

I don’t know exactly the answer to your dilemna, Todd, but I’m pretty sure you are going to find more than one solution by continuing to explore educational opportunities. If you need a cheaper hotel, try:

Best Western of Asheville Biltmore East
501 Tunnel Road
Asheville , North Carolina 28805-1824
Phone: 828-298-5562
Fax : 828-298-5002

For those of us in our prime, don’t forget to ask for the senior discount (AAA works for most of the rest). Hotels in Asheville fill up fast, so everyone should try to book ASAP (I’ve got mine).

I know you are wondering if this cross-country trek is worth it. Let me reassure you, Todd, that YOU are worth it. Besides, I promise to let you have a bite of my cheesecake–

Tye (who also has a 6 hour jaunt to the airport)