tenant claiming theft - Posted by Kenny

Posted by Frank Chin on May 03, 2007 at 06:34:57:

Kenny:

If you don;t enforce the “renter insurance”, later 'on, you might lose that right to enforce it. It might be a good ideat to write her a letter stating that you’ll waive it till lease renewal. At that point, she probably still can’t afford it, and you’ll have a perfectly good reason to not renew the lease, instead of lying and saying “you’re selling the place”.

And I would have her sign something saying you’re ABSOLUELY NOT RESPONSIBLE for tenant’s valuables.

It’s been established landlord/tenant law here in NYC, that despite “no dog” clauses in leases, if the landlord knew about the dog, did nothing to enforce the “no dog” clause, he loses the right to enforce it after a period of time. Same goes for “renter insurance”.

Frank Chin

tenant claiming theft - Posted by Kenny

Posted by Kenny on April 28, 2007 at 17:47:57:

The other day I had the electric service updated on one of my rentals. Had electrian come to property to let him in to to do the work while tenants were @ work. Tenants called me today to inform me that $400.00 is missing they said was in a drawer in bedroom. Work was performed on 4/9/2007 today is 4/28/2007 She asked if I was with contractor the whole time he was there doing the work. I said yes but I really wan’t. I’m I respnsible for this or is she trying to beat me. She pays on time but seems she always has some kind of issuem when rent is due. She has been there since Nov of 2006. Is this a sign that I should get her out before she cost me dearly. She seems to wanta complain about anything. I don’t mind fixcing things but if the light bulb goes out she wants call me to fix it. Anybody out heir have the tenant from hell and how did you deal with them. She pays on time seemed to be a good tenent during screenibg process but now she is becoming a nuisance. If I need to get her out what would be the eaisiest way to do it without getting into any kind of legal basttle with her. Could I just give 30 days to find another place and tell her I’m selling the property and turn around and re-rent to someone else? Would this be legal I’m in Ohio.

Re: tenant claiming theft - Posted by Sean

Posted by Sean on April 30, 2007 at 13:59:31:

My advice,

  1. never lie

  2. $400 theft that you could be at fault for is far cheaper than down time between tenants.

  3. To cut down nusance calls IE light bulb changes etc, I have it in lease they are responsible for first $50 of any repair, and my company charges $20 for the service call so yes, even a light bulb change is going to cost you $20… amazing how they don’t bother you with that sort of little thing… down side is, they may let little things go rather than fix them, and they can become big things.

Have tenants get “renters insurance” - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on April 30, 2007 at 06:22:05:

Kenny:

Hard to say if she’s trying to beat you. It’s because of things like theft, breakins, burglaries, slips and falls inside the tenant’s unit by their visitors that I advocate requiring “tenant (renter) insurance” in the lease. If something happens, say “file a claim against your insurance”.

This also benefits you that it’ll cut down on claims you file against your own policy, which may result in high premiums or cancellation if you file too many claims.

In this case, I would tell her that you’ll file an insurance claim against your liability carrier, as well as the electricians insurance, after she files a police report which is mandatory in these cases. If the police report is taken, I don’t recommend that you tell the police you were there the whole time.

BTW, I had a slip and fall case, some guy came after me with $3,000 in chiropractor bills, and I filed a claim against my insurance. Turned out it was a smart thing since he had problems getting attorneys handling the case since lawyers can’t bluster insurance compamies the way they can try to threaten me. He complained to me but I said “sorry, the insurance is handling it, and I feel bad your attorney doesn’t take your calls”.

You didn’t say you had a lease or not, but the way I would handled cases like this in the past is to say that “I normally rent to folks a bit more handy”, and either “I don’t have the time” or you have “health issues ( i got a bad back)” that you won’t be able to take care of so many odds and ends.

In one case where a “mechanic” had a mom living with him, I get a weekly call about “hinges that creak”, “magnets that don’t hold kitchen cabinet doors close if you slam it” etc. After about four of these calls, I called the son to explain that for the price I charge (I usually charge a bit below market), I expect him to oil creaky hinges. Told him that for another $200/month, we can take care of these little things that everyone else can handle. He said “he’ll speak to his mom”, and I never got another complaint.

In my screening, I try to look for the “pain in the @ss” type tenants. I watch how they fill out the application form in my presence. It’s two pages, and usually the ones that complian about “too many questions” also turn out to be a “pain” later on.

I had an out of state rental that my sister manages, and we had one of these tenants. I was told she was charming when the place was rented to her.

She complained about everything, including how diificult it was to open the windows. My brother in law actually goes by to open the window for her when she gets home from work, and then close it at night for her. He’s downstairs. She’s an older lady, and at one point wanted “hand grips” for getting in and out of the showers. We offered to get portable ones, but she wanted ones screwed to the walls, which if properly done, requires the walls be opened up, plywood installed, and retiled, and the grips screwed onto it.

I was not interested in redoing the bathroom of a newly converted building. We raised the rent quite a bit on renewal, above the average in the area, and she moved.

Frank Chin

There is no substitute… - Posted by Phoenician

Posted by Phoenician on April 30, 2007 at 05:16:08:

…for a strong lease/rental agreement.

John Reed said it best. There are no bad tenants in his properties. Bad tenants don’t abide by the rental agreement, and then they go bye-bye.

Write (or have your lawyer write) a strong lease/rental agreement that follows the landlord-tenant laws in your area, and then enforce it in a firm and no-nonsense manner.

Re: tenant claiming theft - Posted by Rich-CA

Posted by Rich-CA on April 29, 2007 at 22:55:52:

Did you notify the tenant when the electrician would be there and give them the opportunity to be there if they wish? This is important, especially if they declined. Most leases require notice before entering, I assume this was given as well.

I would never have lied to the tenant. My lease does not require I stay with people entering the unit, but generally am unless I know the person involved. The tenant needs to file a police report and you need to provide the name of the electrician and the contact info you have.

As far as the “little things”, does your lease specify who takes care of these things? I normally tell the tenant to take care of these things themselves, that it nor reasonable to call for things like light bulbs, changing toilet paper, plunging the toilet (I supply tenant with a plunger when they move in), keeping the interior clean. Fact is, in many states it is intrusive to be inside someone’s home so many times anyway. Living indoors anywhere other than a nursing home requires the person living there handle certain maintenance activities themselves, and burned out light bulbs are one of them. However, some fixtures are very difficult to open and may break - you may want to show the tenant HOW to do these things if you have those kinds of fixtures.

Some people are high maintenance - but when you take time to educate them what to do you also imply that they are going to have to do it themselves after that and you can reinforce this by telling them.

One more thing. During the move in walk through, I tell the tenant that I have replaced all the light bulbs and let them know they need to replace any that burn out.

Re: tenant claiming theft - Posted by Eric (MI)

Posted by Eric (MI) on April 29, 2007 at 13:15:33:

I think you are going about this ALL wrong. You should have simply told her, as mentioned below, to file a police report and the only thing you would have to do is possibly verify who the electrician was.

I don’t know what would happen but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be sitting across from a judge trying explain that I booted this woman out because I was selling but instead rented to someone else before her lease was up. A lot of times she will just go on her merry way I imagine but that one time she doesn’t I am sure it is going to cost you a lot more than the time or price to fix a light bulb.

There is no reason not to conduct business honestly and if you do you have very little to worry about.

Re: tenant claiming theft - Posted by rehabber

Posted by rehabber on April 29, 2007 at 11:42:24:

I had a constantly “fix this little thing, fix that
little thing” tenant ONCE. Then I learned. All of my
rental agreemnts now have the phrase “tenant pays the
first $25 of each repair” in them. It stops the
nuisance calls cold.

NEVER LIE !!! - Posted by Jimmy

Posted by Jimmy on April 29, 2007 at 07:44:58:

first, instruct the tenant to file a police report. if she won’t, you will know she’s a liar. if the police find the electrician’s fingerprints on the drawer in question…

second, you do not have responsibility for criminal acts committed by others.

I have had tenants like this, too. I do not deal with directly, but my managers do. When a tenant distinghuishes herself (85% of my tenants are single moms with multiple offspring), I get involved. we have a little “call to Jesus.” that call is direct, blunt, nasty and undiplomatic. and they will know, without any doubt, that they are headed out the door on their next offense.

One more thing: NEVER LIE. NEVER LIE. NEVER LIE. You should not have told the tenant you were with the electrician. What did you accomplish with your lie? other than let us know that you are a liar. and NO, do not tell the tenant you are going to sell the place. Just enforce the lease.

Re: tenant claiming theft - Posted by Tim

Posted by Tim on April 28, 2007 at 20:55:58:

I have had tenants in the past who seemed really good during screening, then were pain in the arses once they moved in, with paying rent, and multiple petty complaints. I’ll spare you the details.

My advice is this, fix what needs to be fixed, and if it’s too petty, tell them no, you won’t change the light bulb, etc. Let them whine on, and say as little as possible. When they threaten to move / withhold rent, etc., say nothing. Sounds like they want to get into a pising contest, you should not participate.

Then, as soon as they are five minutes late with rent, serve their eviction notice, and evict them. They will either leave, or will pay and know that you are serious and not playing petty little games.

It has been my experience that you can’t win an argument with people like this, and you definately can not please them. The best way to handle them is to say as little as possible, be professional, and show them just how serious you are when it comes to rent.

Please post a follow up after you decide what to do. Let us know how it turns out. We can learn from your experience. I wish you well.

Re: Have tenants get “renters insurance” - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on April 30, 2007 at 07:34:29:

Kenny:

Looks like it’s a good start.

I would ask for a “certificate of insurance” after movein to insure that the tenant complied with the provision, and I would send her a copy of the lease provision, and ask for the ceritificate right now. And you can also at this point say “file a claim against your own insurance”, and see what he or she says.

I had a tenant who kept the windows open in a storm, came after me for items ruined, and in this case, I even got a copy of the ceritificate after movein, but when I told him to file a claim, he replied the insurance was cancelled after he failed to pay the full premium.

So he tried to fool me, and thinking back, the ceritificate is probably a fake.

I then informed him that I’ll commence eviction proceedings for the failure to fully comply with the lease, i.e. no renter’s insurance. He backed down, and his live in girlfriend threw him out soon after, and she moved out a few months later.

I actually filed a claim anyway against my insurance, and they promptly sent a adjuster, and hired a contractor, and bought equipment in to dry out the place, something I would’ve normally paid for myself. They also advised the tenant they don’t cover the tenant’s belongings, unless he can prove it’s the landlord’s negligience. BTW, if you decide to file any claims agsint your insurance, do so within 30 days of your knowing about it, else they can decline on the grounds you filed late.

In my case, the tenant keeping the windows open in a rainstorm did not qualify for landlord negligience.

In your case, it is unlikely that the tenant even bought the insurance, and it’ll be grounds for eviction. But in the unlikely case that she bought it, then she should file against her own insurance.

Frank Chin

Re: Have tenants get “renters insurance” - Posted by Kenny

Posted by Kenny on April 30, 2007 at 06:51:31:

Here is another clausae I have in my lease.

  1. FULL DISCLOSURE
    The TENANTS signing this RENTAL AGREEMENT (CONTRACT) hereby state that all their questions about this RENTAL AGREEMENT have been answered, that they fully understand all the provisions of the agreement and the obligations and responsibilities of each party as spelled out herein. They further state that they agree to fulfill their obligations in every respect or suffer the full legal and financial consequences of their actions or lack of action in violation of this agreement. Signature by the TENANT on this RENTAL AGREEMENT is acknowledgment that he/she has received a signed copy of the RENTAL AGREEMENT.

Re: Have tenants get “renters insurance” - Posted by Kenny

Posted by Kenny on April 30, 2007 at 06:38:09:

Here is my clause in my lease agreement. Will this stand up in ohio??

  1. TENANT INSURANCE
    No rights of storage are given by this agreement. LANDLORD will not be liable for any loss of TENANT’s property. TENANT hereby acknowledges this and agrees to make no such claims for any loses or damages against LANDLORD, his agents, or employees. TENANT agrees to purchase insurance at their own expense, sufficient to protect themselves and their property from fire, theft, burglary, breakage, electrical connections etc. They acknowledge that if they fail to procure such insurance it is their responsibility and they alone shall bear the consequences.

Re: Have tenants get “renters insurance” - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on April 30, 2007 at 07:35:44:

Kenny:

Looks like it’s a good start.

I would ask for a “certificate of insurance” after movein to insure that the tenant complied with the provision, and I would send her a copy of the lease provision, and ask for the ceritificate right now. And you can also at this point say “file a claim against your own insurance”, and see what he or she says.

I had a tenant who kept the windows open in a storm, came after me for items ruined, and in this case, I even got a copy of the ceritificate after movein, but when I told him to file a claim, he replied the insurance was cancelled after he failed to pay the full premium.

So he tried to fool me, and thinking back, the ceritificate is probably a fake.

I then informed him that I’ll commence eviction proceedings for the failure to fully comply with the lease, i.e. no renter’s insurance. He backed down, and his live in girlfriend threw him out soon after, and she moved out a few months later.

I actually filed a claim anyway against my insurance, and they promptly sent a adjuster, and hired a contractor, and bought equipment in to dry out the place, something I would’ve normally paid for myself. They also advised the tenant they don’t cover the tenant’s belongings, unless he can prove it’s the landlord’s negligience. BTW, if you decide to file any claims agsint your insurance, do so within 30 days of your knowing about it, else they can decline on the grounds you filed late.

In my case, the tenant keeping the windows open in a rainstorm did not qualify for landlord negligience.

In your case, it is unlikely that the tenant even bought the insurance, and it’ll be grounds for eviction. But in the unlikely case that she bought it, then she should file against her own insurance.

Frank Chin

Re: Have tenants get “renters insurance” - Posted by Kenny

Posted by Kenny on May 01, 2007 at 21:42:16:

I got a call today from my tenant telling me that she found her money. I asked her to give me a certicate for her renters insurance she told me her daughter had it. I will be following up with her to ensure she abides by the rules. I should not have lied to her but I know now she was the liar and was trying to get over on me. Now I have the upper hand back. But I’ll be professional about it. She needs a place to stay not me and if she continues to be a pain I will just make sure I exercise my lease. Great advise all thanks for the support I really needed that with all the other stuff I’m going through right now. One good lesson I learned was NERVER LIE, NEVER LIE, NEVER LIE it can only come back to haunt you later if your not careful. Again thanks all for your support

I thought so … - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on May 02, 2007 at 11:23:49:

Kenny:

I think she’s giving you BS since a certificate of insurance is often issued in response to requests from people such as landlords, and her daugher has a copy doesn’t sound right. Who else besides you would’ve asked for one?

Just as my tenant who backed down after he got after me, when I questioned him about the insurance, the fact that she has to file police reports, deal with the insurance is not as simple as shaking down “Kenny”.

It seems to me requiring “renter’s insurance” is a good thing whether or not the tenant actually went out and got one. While it may be true that if you get nasty, they’ll move, and you lose a few bucks in the meantime, as some suggested, I find that most of the time, tenants has busy lives too, and they don’t want to move if they don’t have to.

Let this be a lesson, if you have work done, notify tenants in writing to put their valuables away, since you won’t be standing next to the workman every minute, and remind them that they should have insurance in the meantime, just in case. And make sure people you hire are insured and bonded too.

Frank Chin

Re: I thought so … - Posted by Kenny

Posted by Kenny on May 02, 2007 at 20:39:38:

I spoke with her today inperson and told her to produce her certifcate and she told me she coukd not afford it. So I know now she was just blowing smoke. I reminded her from now on to put any valuable awawy from thr premiesAnd for someone to be present from noe on if any repairs need to be fixed by me or my workers Again she can’t afford it right now. Hope this will slow down her complaints if not I’ll have to enforce the provisiohns of my lease. Thanks all again