The Great Guru Debate - Posted by $Cash$

Posted by $Cash$ on July 12, 2002 at 21:50:40:


Glad to meet you.

I read where you attended a seminar, didn’t buy anything, good for you. You are taking a new direction with this FREE information, and expect to do 10 house by the end of the year.

Please let me know how this FREE information works out for you.


The Great Guru Debate - Posted by $Cash$

Posted by $Cash$ on July 12, 2002 at 17:51:20:

Since this was not e-mailed to me personally and it is already on the board in response to an earlier post of mine Guru Review=Newbie Advice. I thought it might be good reading from two slightly different points of view.

Dated : July 12, 2002 at 00:13:23
Subject: In defense of gurus

Intersting questions you pose… who to follow… who to trust…can a non-sales person be a good investor.

Here is my take on the situation. I am considered by many to be a guru in the investing world. I am more than happy to give the name of my title company and the names of my testimonials to anyone who asks. Most gurus I know do not use Aunt Minnie as a testimonial as they may be called to prove it someday. And, I will gladly show the backs of my checks. I’ve had some really big ones!!

Any “newbie” that really wants to learn the investing business should read as much as they can, attend as many seminars as they can and yes, even attend boot-camps. You would not operate on someone without going to school so why would you risk all your hard-earned money by having no education. The best investors are not salepeople… they are people who truly want to help folks who have gotten themselves in a bad situation. I have bought and sold over 1,000 houses as well as taught hundreds of seminars. It is possible to be good at both. I teach with a good heart… I want you, the investor, to make money. I buy/sell with a good heart… I want to help the homeowner begin a new life. Everything I do is win/win.

I have to agree with one thing… there are a lot of gurus who used to sell real estate and began making so much money on seminars that they forgot who they are. That’s a sad, but true fact. If you want to follow someone… make sure they are still investing and find out why they teach. Do they truly want to help you or are the consumed with greed.

One last thing… the only reason anyone fails at investing is because they don’t work the system. You will make as much money as you are willing to work for. Buying training material and putting it in the closet will not make you any money. You will make or break yourself. I have coached thousands of students and the ones who work it, make money at it. Real estate investing a wondeful business… due your due diligence, read as much as you can, be cautious, and go for it…you’ll be glad you did.

I have not regretted one single day in this business… well maybe one here and there… like when a deal falls apart:-). For the most part it has brought be much fiunancial success and I’ll be happy to show the backs of my checks to prove it:-).

Best of luck to all you newbies. I remember the fun of being new. Don’t get me wrong… it’s fun being seasoned too. The deals are more interesting the more you know.

Good luck.

Dwan Bent

“My answer to Dwan”

Dwan Brent,

Your first paragraph is a thoughtful summary of my post? who to follow?who to trust?can a salesperson be a good investor.

The one thing I regret after doing my post was inferring the need to being a salesman in order to be a successful Real Estate Investor. I overlooked areas of investing such as tax liens, foreclosures, etc. that would not require sales experience to be successful. To those investors that this applies, I apologize.

Being, new to this board, I read with a certain consistency. I just finished reading Joe Guru?s material, ?now what do I do?. This concerns me. Either the person reading this material does not comprehend what they have read or the material is lacking the proper instruction. My thoughts were to have the person contemplating this career buy an inexpensive book on sales, see if they could understand the basics of interacting with other people then go on from there.

When I suggested that you need sales training, I am not referring to the ?tell ya what I?m gonna do? or go out and buy a ?plaid jacket? type of salesman. That era is over and gone. I donated my jacket to Good Will. That?s how far back I go.

This is where I believe being a salesman applies: When the house owner calls you from your advertising medium, they do need help: job transfer, making two house payments, divorce and many other reasons. When you buy, would you say to the distressed house owner ?Let me show you how to sell your house on your own and you will have the money to move on with your life? or would you say ? Let me begin by telling you a little about myself, my program, how I can help you and what I will be offering you for your house today?? The first is being of good heart the second is being a salesman. Short analogy but I think accurate.

I too would be willing to show checks and the endorsed backs, have someone talk with my own State licensed and bonded Escrow and Loan Servicing Company or go to a few County Recorders Offices to see the amount of properties purchased and sold. Only about half of what you have accomplished, but I do REI part time as I operate several other businesses. It?s not the money, only the ?Chase? for me. I get more excited about the sale and helping someone else than I do the $ reward.

However, I am not a Guru only a person that wants to help those that want to be REI?s. If I ever wrote a REI Training Manual and my peers said it would be helpful to a new person, it would be inexpensive and I would stack my training manual up against anyone else?s. Your statement of ?working the system? is apropos. No matter how good the training system, if the student doesn?t apply the lessons ?nothing happens.? The way I do it works for me. It?s also a Win/Win situation for the Seller, Buyer Mortgage Co and me.

Your letter shows me that you really do have a good heart. I would have to review your training methods to see if you?re a salesman or not. The Guru sites I have visited certainly appear to me to have sales written all over them. My assumption would be that these Gurus are teaching the same methods used in constructing their web sites?hard sell, punch, punch, punch, close the sale on the newbie and get the money.

Our posts to each other would certainly be a platform for a great debate. It could be entitled The Great Guru Debate. ?You show me yours and I?ll show you mine.? Then the winners of the debate could do a post and be allowed to put a * by their name, oops that one is already taken make it a ?. However with your doing over 1000 houses would make you a Guru in my opinion and someone I would listen to if I had a question.

There is one person who posts on this board for whom I have the greatest respect. I do not know how many houses this person has bought, sold or rented exactly. This person just makes sense to me when this person posts a message. This person has stated, maybe not in these words, but it is ?difficult to be all things to all people.? Being a good Real Estate Investor, good lecturer, good trainer and a good writer is tough. If a person masters only one of these wouldn?t that person be a winner?

Thank you for taking the time. I have not seen your posts before. It would seem your advice would be an asset to posters on this board.

Glad to meet you,


Re: The Great Guru Debate - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on July 13, 2002 at 18:32:10:


Thank you for drawing Dwan Brent as a poster to your earlier contribution. I have read some of Dwan Brent’s responses to questions and my thought was “there is a knowledgeable person, giving good advice.”

Good InvestingRon Starr***

Nice post… - Posted by Drew

Posted by Drew on July 12, 2002 at 20:48:02:


Nice post, glad to see you are contributing here on a regular basis. We could use more experienced, forthright investors like you on this board. Wish I still lived in Vegas so we could have lunch. Since you’ve done 500 deals, I’d buy…and you’d talk into the microphone. :wink:


Re: The Great Guru Debate - Posted by $Cash$

Posted by $Cash$ on July 13, 2002 at 19:50:09:

Ronald * Starr,

I recieved a personal e-mail from Dwan, she really does has a good heart and is very knowledgable. I may get out of Sub2’s and go into forclosures. She says she’s not a salesperson, which I do not believe for a minute, she sold me.

At least with forclosures I can just stand there and wave a fist full of money around. Sound’s to easy.

I hope she will continue as a poster, I will work on it.


Testing…1,2,3 Testing…1,2,3 - Posted by $Cash$

Posted by $Cash$ on July 12, 2002 at 21:20:46:


Glad to meet you.


Re: The Great Guru Debate - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on July 13, 2002 at 20:34:20:


Well, you’re the kind of guy I can encourage to go into foreclosures. You already know lots about real estate, you have proven your success in other areas of real estate investing.

I posted to another questionner today on this main bulletinboard forum of the CREONLINE.COM website, with Foreclosure in the subject line. You can probably use it to see what difficulties to avoid.

Good Investing*Ron Starr

cash I know you. - Posted by waynepdx

Posted by waynepdx on July 12, 2002 at 21:39:13:

Arent you my daddy?

Now give me 29 years of back child support with interest…or I will settle for hard money loans at 10% interest with no points…

and if thats not doable

How about some tic tacs and a envelope?