Posted by Judie on October 23, 1998 at 10:35:46:
We’ve all been tipped on our heads. We’ve all beat ourselves up over it and we’ve all recovered to go on.
For heaven’s sake. Do yourself and others a favor, (this is for your wife too)
Consider it a lesson and forget the thing. The next time you trust a stranger, put it in writing.
Judie
Daytona Beach, Florida
Update: Park Mgrs. stole my money - Posted by John (KS)
Posted by John (KS) on October 22, 1998 at 08:03:21:
Just an update for those interested.
I spoke with my Lawyer, and she advised me to file a small claims suit. I have the papers and I am getting a few things together. I will probably file tomorrow. I sent them a letter with the threat of filing suit if I did not hear from them in 7 days and even gave them the option of paying me back in payments with a 20% interest rate, because I am sure the money was spent getting into their new house. They previously lived in the park and had to move out when they got fired. They don’t live in a very good neighborhood and I am sure they cannot come up with $1700. I am counting on them claiming bankrupcy when I am awarded the money by the judge. I probably will never see it. The Clerk at the courthouse said that I could garnish their wages, but guess what, they don’t have jobs. I am still pressing on though, I haven’t done anymore deals, because they are using my dealmaking money. At least I had two deals done before all of this, they will cover the payment back to my investor. Thanks all for being concerned. I did learn a few valuable lessons, Don’t trust anybody on a handshake deal, and NEVER give anyone money without getting a Title in the same transaction. Later.
Re: Update: Park Mgrs. stole my money - Posted by Dirk Roach
Posted by Dirk Roach on October 22, 1998 at 16:27:45:
John I’m glad that your weathering the storm so to speak. It’s a sad affair.
Now I’m not an attorney, but the bottom line it sounds like is that these people are trying to mess with you. I think JP, Gator and JohnBoy have the right idea. Show these people no mercy! Go for their throats, think of the time, expense and aggrivation that they’ve given you. I wouldn’t get all emotional about it, business is business. Take em down. if you can’t get your money out of them, after all other avenues have been exhausted at least 1099 them.
It seems to me, if I’m understanding a little between the lines here that you would like to avoid getting into an adversial postion with the Park owner. Probably because your thinking about potential future deals with him.
I can understand this if that in fact it is the case, but he can’t be the only game in town.
He and his employee’s did you wrong. I say fight. Even if you can’t win, at least inflict a few good wounds to let them remember you by, and to add to your credibilty in your area. Be fair, but don’t get taken.
Good luck and I’m glad for the update, I think we can all learn from this. And it’s a two way street, you might get some ideas on how to handle these guys.
Good luck,
Dirk Roach
Re: Update: Park Mgrs. stole my money - Posted by JohnBoy
Posted by JohnBoy on October 22, 1998 at 08:35:07:
John,
Why are you bothering with the managers? Your claim is with the PARK OWNER! If you take the managers to court, more than likely the Judge will dismiss this case because you are suing the wrong people even though they may have taken off with the money. The Judge will tell you to refile your claim against the PARK OWNER.
The managers were an EMPLOYEE! Once you paid them the money for the mobile home, that money became the property of the PARK’s. The OWNER of the park is RESPONSIBLE for the actions of his employee’s.
One thing you could do is file against both, the managers AND the owner of the park. Get them both into court in front of the Judge and let him sort it out for you. What most likely would happen is that the Judge would award your claim against the OWNER and tell the owner he will have to go after his employee’s to recover his loss. You are NOT responsible for what someone elses EMPLOYEE’S do! This is the OWNERS PROBLEM! Your claim is with the OWNER, NOT the employee’s!
Save yourself a lot of grief and sue the OWNER of the park. Otherwise you will end up wasting a lot of time and money suing the wrong people. I’ve been to small claims court many times in the past. When someone sue’s the wrong party (Like an employee instead of the owner) the Judge dismisses the case and tells the plantiff to sue the owner. You cannot sue an employee for stealing money from their employer! Its that simple! It may have been the money you gave them for the purchase of this MH, but once you did that, the money became the property of the OWNER OF THE PARK! What ever HIS employee does with that money is between the OWNER and HIS EMPLOYEE’S! NOT between you and his employee’s! Why haven’t you gone after the OWNER??? Send your certified letter to him demanding payment!
How To Get Your Money - Posted by J.P. Vaughan
Posted by J.P. Vaughan on October 22, 1998 at 08:32:34:
John,
You missed the point made by several of us to your
original post. NAME THE PARK OWNER as a party defendant.
The park OWNER is legally responsible for the actions
of his employees, the park managers. This is a legal
doctrine called “respondeat superior” and it is a well
established doctrine is ALL states.
You mat not be able to collect from the managers, but
I am sure you can collect from the OWNER. Furthermore,
as I previously mentioned, I would file written complaints
about the OWNER’S behavior with all licensing agencies
and all MH park and dealer associations.
FOCUS ON THE OWNER and then let him try to recover from
his dishonst employees.
Good Luck.
JPV
The problem is…or is it not? - Posted by John (KS)
Posted by John (KS) on October 22, 1998 at 08:53:28:
I admit it, I screwed up. I took a Cashiers Check to the Managers in the name of the Park. They told me that the owner (who lives in Reno and she supposedly was on the phone with) told them to have me get a Cashiers check in their name, to pay them for their salaries and to pay the light bill (which he normally covers, but had not sent a check yet.) This would help everyone out, the park owner - because he forgot to send the check, the managers - because their electricity was going to be turned off and they needed their pay, and me - because I had guys moving in that day. I, (being a newbie, and honest person, and believing that after 2 weeks of dealing and talking to these people, that they to were honest), ran to the bank to get a new Cashiers Check in the managers name. I was excited to have deal #3 nearly under my belt and I wanted to do what the owner and manager wanted, because this park is full of great buys, and I had hoped to do many deals there. Later I found out the Park Owner did not send the money for their salaries and the electricty, because he was hoping they would quit and move out. They were fired the next day.
I know I screwed up, I learned many valuble lessons from this deal gon sour. Please don’t beat on me to hard, I know I asked for this mess by being honest and trusting people. That is just the type of guy my mamma raised. From now on, I will only operate by the book and I will protect myself leagally at all times. TRUST NO ONE!!
Re: The problem is…or is it not? - Posted by JohnBoy
Posted by JohnBoy on October 22, 1998 at 09:42:54:
John,
I’m not trying to beat you up on this but rather help you from more heartache. In your original post you lead us to believe the cashiers check was made out to the park. But whether it was made out to the park or not, what about your contract and/or sales receipt? Did you get a contract for the sale? Did the manager sign the sales contract? Did they mark it paid? I would still serve the OWNER with papers also. Take both parties into court to get them both in front of the Judge. Present your case and let the Judge sort it all out for you. If you send a certified letter to the owner of the park demanding a refund or clear title to the MH, otherwise your taking him to court, he might just give up the title or refund your money. These people were still acting as an employee of the park. You say they were on the phone with the owner while you were there. This means you were at the parks office, (there place of business) when this sale occurred. What about people that pay in cash? They would still have to go after the owners. Hopefully they have a receipt for the cash they paid. Do you have a contract? Did they sign it? Did they mark it paid? If you have any of this stuff, then don’t worry about the cashiers check. That’s the owners problem. You have a sales contract and/or receipt that says you paid for the MH. If you take the owner to court the burden of proof is on the owner. You have a receipt and a contract that was marked paid by his employee.
if your going to ask for help it is always best to give all the details and not hold back anything because you may feel like a fool or something for not handling something right in the first place. We all make our fair share of mistakes. Its nothing to be ashamed of. Although it can be frustrating and make you mad at yourself at times when things go wrong that you could of prevented. But it happens to all of us at one time or another. The important thing here is that you learned something out of it.
In the future though, please don’t leave out little details that could be a major problem with solving a problem you may have. How can someone here help you with the right information if your leaving important things out? Whats the point in asking then? You just end up getting half the solution to half your problem.
If you want advice or ideas on how to handle this properly give us ALL the details. Was there a contract? Was it signed by the managers? Was it marked paid? Do you have a receipt showing it was paid? Is the copy of the cashiers check the ONLY thing you have to show you gave the managers any money? What do you have to show that that cashiers check was for the purchase of the MH? Did you confront the owner about this story of him being on the phone and not paying his employee’s and authorizing the cashiers check to be made out to the managers? What did he say? Your leaving out details that we assumed you had to justify your claim from your original post. Spill it all man! Then we might be able to help. Thats all were trying to do is help you with a solution to your problem. So lay all the cards out on the table if you want ideas to a solution guy! Then we can help guide you in the right direction.
easy now! - Posted by Gator Shelton
Posted by Gator Shelton on October 22, 1998 at 09:19:00:
Nobody’s gonna beat on you, just don’t beat up on yourself. I’ve sure made a lot of mistakes and just keep goin. Look at it this way, 2 good deals and 1 bad deal, for a .667 average. If you could do that in baseball you’d be a hall of famer. I think most people are honest but you just need to take precautions. I think JP and Johnboy are probably right about suing the park owner. Its a little different in my neck of the woods. Lots of times I try to get criminal charges pressed. If someone tries screw me, I like to let em think about it in a cell. Seems to make them more remorseful. They usually got some kinda technical name like Theft by Deception or Somethin with a Forged Instrument. Best of luck in this matter and keep your chin up.
Best wishes from your friend, Gator Shelton
PS. Don’t let anyone ever hold your billfold or sleep with your wife. No matter how good a reason they got for doin it. Words to live by from the Gator.
Re: The problem is…or is it not? - Posted by John(KS)
Posted by John(KS) on October 22, 1998 at 10:21:47:
I did give them a MH sales agreement and I watched her sign it, but her husband needed to sign it also and he was not around at the time. She said that she would have him sign it and give it back to me the next day, the day they got fired. That is the reason I went over there on the day they got fired and I pulled up as they were being fired. I asked them about it and they said it was on the desk signed and I should have no problem finding it. The owner never (or claims to never) found it. The new manager reorganized all the paperwork and never found it either. I got a call from the owner last night, but I was not home, saying that he needed to talk to me about the situation. I talked to the new manager and he said that the owner is currently pursuing pressing charges against them and having them arrested. I think the owner is using me to try to get the money back. Good Advice, go after the owner. Thanks for the beating JohnBoy.
Re: easy now! - Posted by John (KS)
Posted by John (KS) on October 22, 1998 at 10:28:19:
Your right also Gator, I am beating my self pretty hard. I am riding the storm and hoping everything is going to be OK, trying to not act as concerned as I really am, because my wife is hysterical. She didn’t have much faith in my REI ideas until I pulled the first couple of deals, then she got interested. Now I am in the doghouse. I always figured if I am honest with people they will be honest with me. I am doing evrything I can to get back on track and trying to get this behind me. Earlier this week I was not very motivated, as I was a few weeks ago, making lots of calls, showing lots of homes, but I need to get back up on the horse and go. Thanks for the advice and not beating on me to hard.
Consider fraud charges - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on October 26, 1998 at 13:36:03:
I’m not an attorney, but it looks like they purposely set you up. They mis-represented to you, took your money and led you to believe they were representing the owner.
Aside from the other advice and going after the owner, they have commited a criminal act. To have a small claims suit and potential judgement may not scare them. How would potential jail affect them. They will come up with the money from somewhere if they are looking at criminal charges.
It may seem like a singular case, but the way they set you up makes it sound to me like they are experienced con artists. I’m sure you aren’t the only case. The owner probably fired them for similar instances. He’s trying to minimize his losses and may be hoping you’ll go after them. As has been said, it’s his problem too. Move quick. The squeaky wheel does get the grease.
I’d consider digging up their history and offer to dump a whole graveyard of skeletons on their doorstep if you don’t get paid back immediately. Do not consider payments or anything but cash.
Re: point is - Posted by MJS
Posted by MJS on October 22, 1998 at 11:31:54:
You have experience now.
This is valuable to everyone
And sharing it so others do not do a simmelar thing
This will pass and your wife will forgive
Just has mine has.
Relax take a deep breath laugh out loud finish with this and go make more $.
Have you sat down with the owner to see if you can work something out. If you can not stay away from him in the future unless you have papers to help you out.
Good Luck listen to JP