Nothing Down for the 90s - Posted by Pavon Bailey

Baking Cakes and RE… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on March 17, 2000 at 11:24:51:

Tina,

If your baking a Cake, and your able to bake some of the finest, tastiest cakes in the world, but everytime you go to take the cakes from the stove to the table you drop the cake and it’s ruined, does that make the recipe bad??

Along the same lines if you give the recipe to others they follow the directions and are able to make wonderful tasty cakes that actually make it to the table, wouldnt that prove to you that the recipe is good, it’s just that your able to carry the cakes to the dinner table for everyone to eat them. The recipe originator wasnt for whatever reason. Maybe one day they’ll get to taste their cakes, too.

See Tina, there is more to life than just doing something, we all have Things that either propell us forward or hold us back. Things that make up our mindsets and either we overcome them or they overcome us.

So when you bake a cake but dont get to eat it, realize that is not the same thing.

David Alexander

Again you’re wrong - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on March 16, 2000 at 23:17:09:

I’ve never said a word about Nationwide. Personally I’ve never heard a word about them except what has been posted here.

The only post I have ever made about Nationwide is requesting someone give me their address so I could serve them with a slander suit when the started dragging me into their juvenile little mud fest.

They then dropped me from their attacks, but some idiot with many false names and email addresses has been bothering me ever since.

Based on the similar lack of logic and reasoning of your posts, I suspect it might be you.

I have exprerience being a fool - Posted by Jacob

Posted by Jacob on March 16, 2000 at 20:46:19:

If any “regular” on this site (if I may call myself that)has ever made a fool of themself, I’ve done a better job than most. On several occasions. Therefore, it’s quite easy for me to spot an even bigger one instantly.

This entire argument is foolish. Find one major re player that has never fallen. Heck, I respect Terry even more for admitting he had. (For all have sinned…) You can’t be a player in this game and not stumble, it’s impossible.

That’s why Ron (or whoever he really is) will never be a player. He is so worried about what Jack Reed (the biggest fool of all) says or thinks about anyone, he will never go out and do a deal.

I’m just glad someone not named Jacob has come along and made such a public a$$ of themselves. I don’t feel so bad now.

Jacob

Not 4 years ago - 14 years ago - it was 1986 - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on March 16, 2000 at 01:05:01:

(nt)

Re: OK Ron You’ve Had Your 15 Minutes Of Fame.Now Go And Do A Deal - Posted by IdahoRob

Posted by IdahoRob on March 15, 2000 at 23:43:47:

Ron
John T Reed is no puritan. John bought into a real estate complex — and advised others to invests as well. This then folded and those that chose the wisdon of John Lost big time.
See for youself in a page on Joe Kaisers site at Nothingdown.com

But using this logic that going into bankrupcy makes that person worthless is not looking at the big picture. Many Real Estate big players have had problems—and overcome this stumbling block going on to much greater sucess.

Bob Allen is not the only guru to have to file. Even some of our own here have fallen–to this and got back up am is so much stronger now.
I would suggest you look at the true man inside. The man that is not a quitter but got back up from this period in his life. Becoming stronger and wiser from this. Ed posted a few days back about all the set backs Ab Lincoln had—before he was voted president.
No one is a quitter until one give up and quits!!

Its my thought that the IRS seems to look more closely at hi profile people. Plus with the up and down turns that our country gets into its easy to have a very good year and the next is crappy. The bigger you are Ron the easyer it is to get into a trap and owe more in a bad year than you can pay. Mmmmm maybe we can all take JPipers word of wisdon on keeping enouph back to pay the taxes.

Its easy to draw a pay check and pay what is due. But its so much more fun to learn how to fly with the eagles. Even if you get a few feathers clipped ever so often.

Ron I hope you get the education on real estate that will give you your wings.

Focus on education and not on people-- will get you there so much faster.

Rob Harris

Bob’s losses had little to do with real estate - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on March 16, 2000 at 01:00:38:

I know Bob well and spoke, wrote and consulted for his company at the time. I was owed money too.

I know much of the intricate details and it had little if anything to do with the principles taught in his book.

He lost money in the seminar business. Part of the reason for that was the heavy competition from Al Lowry. I was at Mark Haroldsen’s Christmas party a year or two before when he announced that Al Lowry had just declard “war” on Bob Allen and Mark Haroldsen.

Every time they went into a city, as soon as Lowry found out he would come in with heavy advertising to lower their profits and try to drive them out of business. It hurt them all, yet Lowry was the first one out of the business.

Then 60 minutes started chasing Joe Land around. I was there the day they filmed him at the UPI convention in California. They did a nasty piece on him and the real estate industry. It hurt everybody.

Then a very rare snow slide took out his brand new million dollar cabin in Sundance and nearly killed his wife. It cost him over a million dollars.

Then Luther’s restaurants that he had invested in took a dive. I think the partner he trusted ran off with some of the money. I think the film(s) he invested in didn’t pan out either.

NONE of that has a darn thing to do with real estate or the principles in his book. The tax problems and much of the debts were because the seminar company that he really had little to do with went down the tubes in the midst of the competition and bad press.

Even if his losses had to do with real estate it wouldn’t make the knowledge, advice and creativity in his books and materials untrue. If Bob ran Naked through the Superbowl it would have about as much bearing.

Even if his losses had been in real estate, I would be interested to hear about the gains. And - I’d be interested to learn from the losses. If I were heading into a “mine field” I would want to hear all I could from those who crossed safely and also those who came back minus a few toes.

I’d take boxing advice from Muhamed Ali even though Pee Wee Herman could kick his >>>> right now. If I wanted to create a successful kids show, I’d listen to Pee Wee Herman. I just wouldn’t be interested in his recommendation of theaters or hobbies.

People make mistakes. People branch out into other endeavors they shouldn’t. People have character flaws. I will not rip my brain out of my head and kick it down the street because everyone that ever taught me any portion of everything I know had flaws and made mistakes.

What I will do is learn all I can from everyone I can and sort and sift through with my brain to come up with a strategy and plan that works for me. Some of the most valuable information I’ve ever learned has come from people who have barely survived or gotten out alive. Some of the least valuable information has come from Professors and others who never had the guts to leave school and try it out.

Sometimes painting a picture using irrelevent or partial information to skew the beliefs and charge the emotions of the reader is very successful - IF that’s what you want to do. But what they heck does it have to do with someone’s ideas, creativity or ability to teach?

If we wait for someone perfect to come along and teach us, we’ll starve to death. Want to learn wisdom and be successful? - look for the scarred and battle weary soldier that comes in from the front lines.

Re: Don’t be Naive! - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on March 15, 2000 at 17:23:58:

I’ve had this argument via personal email with John T. Reed in the past.

$100K in judgments for unpaid speaking fees may say something about Allen, but it says little about his real estate ideas. Rather, it says something about his activities in the seminar business.

1986 IRS liens and state tax liens/deficiencies speaks volumes about an inability to manage tax matters…but again does not say much about real estate ideas. One could have this difficulty as an example by paying cash for real estate and not saving cash to pay taxes on real estate sold. OR, one could have this difficulty by being a poor manager of his personal financial situation as it pertains to the seminar business. Either way, it says little about real estate ideas. Have you bothered to check out the source of the difficulties? By the way, 1986 was the year that the Federal government changed the manner in which real estate and other assets were taxed. No one foresaw these actions on the part of the government…including Reed. Do these difficulties have anything to do with this? Have you checked it out?

I guess you get the point. You have just enough information to have drawn conclusions which may not be valid at all…you really don’t know. But if you want to draw conclusions that you don’t know for certain have any basis in fact, don’t buy his book.

My suggestion would be to evaluate his ideas…see if there is anything that would make sense to you. Just don’t use your current method of evaluation to evaluate his ideas…it might just get you into trouble.

JPiper

Re: Baking Cakes and RE… - Posted by Tina

Posted by Tina on March 17, 2000 at 11:33:13:

Thus Bill McCorkle did a lot of good baking of cakes…

Re: I have exprerience being a fool - Posted by Ron

Posted by Ron on March 16, 2000 at 21:36:29:

Jacob,

Your right. Everyone makes mistakes.

I will then agree to your philosophy and praise William McCorkle, Joe Land, Tom Vu, and Charles Givens. We can’t judge their mistakes because according to you, everyone makes mistakes.

The problem is that the mistakes Robert Allen makes today could have been the mistakes McCorkle and others made in the past. Do you praise or criticize those who investigated & exposed them? Or do you merely follow the herd like a sheep does and refuse to provide your own point of view?

Re: Not 4 years ago - 14 years ago - it was 1986 - Posted by Ron

Posted by Ron on March 16, 2000 at 11:27:02:

4 years ago for his bankruptcy; 1996!

Re: Bob’s losses had little to do with real estate - Posted by Ron

Posted by Ron on March 16, 2000 at 11:28:57:

So I guess McCorkle just made mistakes too, right?

Re: Baking Cakes and RE… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on March 17, 2000 at 11:37:34:

No, McCorkle never knew how to bake a cake but claimed he did. He then lured people in guaranteeing that if they didnt like the recipe send it back and I’ll give you a refund whcih he nver did. Total Fraud,there is a difference.

David Alexander

Your ignorance is showing! - Posted by Terry Vaughan

Posted by Terry Vaughan on March 17, 2000 at 24:43:28:

Ron:

Joe Land should not be included with the other members, in my opinion! I came to know Joe briefly back in the 80’s and his “paper” course ~Paper, The Ultimate Investor Tool~ was the best $300 I ever spent!

On top of that Joe is one of my top five speakers on the planet!

A brilliant mind, a great guy!

Ask John Childers, another great guy and mutual friend.

You still don’t get it, and probably never will - Posted by Jacob

Posted by Jacob on March 16, 2000 at 23:35:24:

Ron,

If you have spent 10 minutes reading anything I have ever written on this site, you would know the last thing anyone has ever said about me (or ever will) is that I follow the crowd. In fact, going against the crowd effectively got me banished from here for about two months. Say what you want, but I have never and will never “follow the crowd.”

The response you made to me proves my point entirely, and that was before I read what my good friend David Alexander had to say.

All you seem to want to offer here is worthless, negative garbage. You have nothing to offer. If anything, you are only Jack Reed’s mouthpiece.

To compare McCorkle, Vu, Givens, Nation-Wide (man, am I ever sick of those people) to Robert Allen shows your inability to think for yourself (what you accused me of.) The differences are staggering.

McCorkle, Vu, Givens (your friends at Nation-Wide) have one major thing in common. That is intent. Each and every one of them CLEARLY had the intent to defraud. My 6 year old cousin can figure that out. Allen filing bankruptcy and having charges filed by the IRS are not even REMOTELY close. Again, a six year old can figure that out. I’ve been literaly bankrupt several times (never filed btw) and have also had troubles with the IRS. Does that make me a criminal, or a fraud? Do you then discount my life and investing experience? Are you going to say I ever intended to defraud or hurt anyone?

Truly, you have a serious problem. Your negative thinking has so clouded your judgment it has become you. You literaly are negative. You define negative. Therefore, you will publicly prove that being negative is a barrier to success.

Get over it and grow up. This world is negative enough without people like you and Jack Reed.

LEAVE IT ALONE! The more you argue, the deeper the hole you dig for yourself (hence my reference to the shovel.)

Jacob

Re: I have exprerience being a fool - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on March 16, 2000 at 22:00:32:

You comparing people that knowingly mislead people, to someone who made their own mistakes which took them down. I say that about McKorkle, I dont know about the others. Robert Allen had, has a brilliant mind that have helped alot of us in their RE Careers.

How much does your cynincal point of view help you in your dealmaking? Have you learned anything other than for some reason you want to bad mouth Allen for who knows what reason?

Enough time with convincing you, I fear you will continue to only seevstraight ahead of you in your world, there are others that will far greater benefit, the wisdom of this site, the contributors, and the books, & courses reccommended.

David Alexander

Wow a time warp - you better tell the attorney that filed it - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on March 16, 2000 at 11:47:54:

Who are you really Ron?

Allen’s bankruptcy was in 1986. I suppose it is possible there was one in 1996 also, but the more likely scenario is you just don’t know what you are talking about - or whoever your source is.

I know the attorney that filed it and pulled it at the bankruptcy court one time.

Not even the same category - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on March 16, 2000 at 12:51:49:

Bob is a great marketer that has substantial experience in real estate.

McCorkle is a marketer who by all reports never bought a piece of real estate or had any experience. He copied a Tom Vu informercial to make money.

As far as Bob, I know the deals, the techniques he used his original partner and was a few miles away when he started both his investing and teaching. I was at the first public seminar he gave in 1978. He had taught some small private groups before that.

No question Bob learned from some of the mistakes he made in real estate too.

As far as everything I’ve ever seen, read or heard McCorkle never had any experience. Bob’s mistakes are not even remotely similar to a total fraud like McCorkle. Yet with 24 years experience I’m not too egotistical to think that even I might find something interesting in his materials. I offered a few bucks for a course of his just to see what it is like. I hope I do find something of value or a different way of looking at things.

I guess you should just wait for that perfect person to write a book. While you’re doing that, we’ll make money. There are plenty of people on this site willing to rent to you or sell you properties at retail in the meantime.

Re: Bob’s losses had little to do with real estate - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on March 16, 2000 at 11:57:56:

McKorkle made promises to people to fund deals and give people refunds if they werent satisfied… and never came through.

Seperate running a business and understanding creative RE.

David Alexander

Re: Baking Cakes and RE… - Posted by Tina

Posted by Tina on March 17, 2000 at 11:39:40:

And Allen knows how to bake a cake?

1986 - IRS liens, deficiencies, lawsuits
1996 - bankruptcy
1999 - abandons real estate for multi-level marketing

Sounds like he knows he can’t bake the cake either!

Re: Your ignorance is showing! - Posted by Tina

Posted by Tina on March 17, 2000 at 09:17:04:

John Reed says that Joe Land left the real estate business shortly after a 60 minutes investigation of him. Doesn’t that sound ala Tom Vu?